why is wing chun kuen wing chun kuen?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
61

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047201]A friend of mine met up with some of the elders from yik kam’s 4 section SLT linage in china, while doing some research for me. They don’t call their system wing chun, they call it weng chun. This system is taught in two villages Yahu and Nga Woo.[/QUOTE]

Could you please make sure your information is proper before you post something?

For example, Yahu and Nga Woo is not two villages. Nga Woo is Yahu in Cantonese.

Also, you need to name the name of those so called elders ,who call their art Weng Chun so we know and can trace who they are, instead of a he says She says …

62

[QUOTE=theo;1047310] what i’m most curious about now is, how does one’s SLT train the power generation if this power signature is also a uniqueness of WCK?

power is power in the end, a force vector but how is it issued.

if seems logical to me that different training produces different power issuing mechanics/methods.

but before even getting to generating power, what about being able to? as in, do we have the right foundation to do so.[/QUOTE]

You are right.

That is where one needs to go Baisi to learn from an Old timer WCner sifu who has the transmission.

That is because it involve lots of details and in general not “imaginable” and one spend lots of time to cultivate power generation. One simply need a coach, that is cultivate Kung Fu.

63

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047333]You are right.

That is where one needs to go Baisi to learn from an Old timer WCner sifu who has the transmission.

That is because it involve lots of details and in general not “imaginable” and one spend lots of time to cultivate power generation. One simply need a coach, that is cultivate Kung Fu.[/QUOTE]

agreed!

earlier it was mentioned that WCK has the YJKYM and that some other southern arts may as well. If that’s true, how does the WCK use or approach to YJKYM distinguish itself from other arts?

64

[QUOTE=Eric_H;1047152]You’re not very good at reading are you?

I acknowledge that yes, various WCK motions can be describe in those terms but they are not native to WCK.
[/QUOTE]

Ah, yes they are. Perhaps they are not “native” to what your teacher is doing, but they are a part of WCK.

There has been argument that Yuen Kay San studied some Weng Chun or other elements which may be where he got them. Looking at his brother’s lineage in Vietnam which has a hodgepodge of a ton of different CMA I’d be inclined to agree that’s the source.

Sink, rise, swallow, spit is in ALL WCK.

In LEGITIMATE WCK we use “Loi Lau Hoi Sung/Lut sau chi chung” not “Tun/tou.”

It’s lut sao jik chung. Also, these two (the method and the kuit) both refer to the same thing – how do you stay with his pressure? One way is to swallow it. How do you jik chung? One way is to spit. This is WCK 101.

Does that mean everyone who trains or learns WCK has learned it? Of course not. Most people practicing and teaching WCK are missing parts of the core curriculum. But just because you didn’t learn it doesn’t mean it isn’t a part of the curriculum.

What a surprise, someone who doesn’t even know the fist maxims of Wing Chun agrees with Hendrik. Good thing those presses are already stopped.

If Yik Kam Siu Lein Tao contained more Wing Chun and less O-mei and White Crane, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Then again, Yik Kam never called his system Wing Chun so I guess it’s a moot point to discuss it as such.

Interesting that your sihing (Alex/Duende) has pointed out that these things you believe are not a part of WCK are in fact a part of HFY’s curriculum. This sort of refutes your whole argument, doesn’t it? It just seems that YOU haven’t learned it even though it is a part of WCK. There is a lesson there – although I don’t think you will see it.

65

[QUOTE=RB93SAAT;1047174]
i agree with you 100%. most wing chun lineages used loi luo hui sung instead of these terms “Swallow, spit, lift” except a few from chi sim weng chun.[/QUOTE]

Another one who apparently slept through WCK 101.

The kuit (lai lou hoi soong) refers to how we deal with pressure – to not knock it away, dodge it, etc but to stay/receive it as it comes. While it provides a direction, it does not provide a method, a way of doing that. Tun (swallow) is a method, not a direction. It is a way of performing lai loa (staying as he comes by swallowing his pressure).

Apparently this is also (according to your sihing Alex/Duende) taught in HFY, although YOU have not yet learned it (although this is basic level WCK).

66

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1047377]Another one who apparently slept through WCK 101.

The kuit (lai lou hoi soong) refers to how we deal with pressure – to not knock it away, dodge it, etc but to stay/receive it as it comes. While it provides a direction, it does not provide a method, a way of doing that. Tun (swallow) is a method, not a direction. It is a way of performing lai loa (staying as he comes by swallowing his pressure).

Apparently this is also (according to your sihing Alex/Duende) taught in HFY, although YOU have not yet learned it (although this is basic level WCK).[/QUOTE]

apparently your sigung hendrik can’t help you learn wck 101, because he’s doing o-mei. in that case, your sihing alex (taught in HFY) may not be able to help you as well. then you may need to look for another genuine wing chun sifu like victor parlati, i’m sure he can help you to advance your wing chun. you are welcome.

67

[QUOTE=RB93SAAT;1047450]apparently your sigung hendrik can’t help you learn wck 101, because he’s doing o-mei.
[/QUOTE]

Hendrik isn’t my sigung. And, he is talking about WCK, and how he believes Ermei may be one of the foundation arts (as he thinks aspects of it were adopted into WCK) that went into WCK’s development.

Do you even train in WCK? If so, where/from whom did you get your training?

in that case, your sihing alex (taught in HFY) may not be able to help you as well.

Alex is not my sihing either.

then you may need to look for another genuine wing chun sifu like victor parlati, i’m sure he can help you to advance your wing chun. you are welcome.

Is he your sifu?

68

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047326]That is because you still dont know what I am refer to but thinking you know. [/QUOTE]

sure I do, you are referring to the wrist snap done with localized arm/tricep muscle starting at1:24 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_2IphVRjg&feature=channel

as well as 1:42 in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIQGflqxMY

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047326]You need to go baisi because you still dont know what snake sliding power generation means.

For example, look at the body distance of your clips
how is that compare with Sifu Gary or Alan’s clip above in term of body distance?[/QUOTE]

wing chun snake power generation can be used at close body distance or at long range bridging distance. Perhaps Yik Kam had a small snake lol or only learnt half of the snake usage. Why don’t you expand your snake power generation usuage instead of limiting yourself to a pioneer of the system. given a few lifetimes, Yik Kam probably would have as well:)

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047327]Could you please make sure your information is proper before you post something?..[/QUOTE]

For example, Yahu and Nga Woo is not two villages. Nga Woo is Yahu in Cantonese…[/QUOTE]

my bad the other village wck system that my friend researched was called Namhoi or Nam yeung, but Yahu was the main one.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047326]Also, you need to name the name of those so called elders ,who call their art Weng Chun so we know and can trace who they are, instead of a he says She says …[/QUOTE]

Hendrik, You need to go baisi to a good yik kam linage elder to get this info:D

69

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047471]
wing chun snake power generation can be used at close body distance or at long range bridging distance. Perhaps Yik Kam had a small snake lol or only learnt half of the snake usage. Why don’t you expand your snake power generation usuage instead of limiting yourself to a pioneer of the system. given a few lifetimes, Yik Kam probably would have as well:)
[/QUOTE]

What Hendrik is talking about is part of WCK (whether it comes from Emei or not). You can see it in the Gary Lam videos cited, and is in YM WCK (which Gary trained), in YKS WCK, in Gu Lao, etc. In other words, is doesn’t just come from Yik Kam’s branch.

The “sliding” (snake power) isn’t something you can do with your bridges extended – you need to have Duen Kiu, Tib San, Che Lun Ma - Short Bridge, Close Body, Carriage Wheels (another of those pesky kuit).

70

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1047476]What Hendrik is talking about is part of WCK (whether it comes from Emei or not). You can see it in the Gary Lam videos cited, and is in YM WCK (which Gary trained), in YKS WCK, in Gu Lao, etc. In other words, is doesn’t just come from Yik Kam’s branch.

The “sliding” (snake power) isn’t something you can do with your bridges extended – you need to have Duen Kiu, Tib San, Che Lun Ma - Short Bridge, Close Body, Carriage Wheels (another of those pesky kuit).[/QUOTE]

Terence,

You are correct. It is an across the WCK lineages signature.

Whether the signature comes from Mars or Western boxing. … I careless. The point is to see it face it and know what is it.

and I am not promoting Yik Kam lineage in here either.
In fact, I dont care.
A lineage is just a tool to pointing at the moon. once one sees the moon that’s all. After that one evolve one’s own WCK further. There is no point to go back to the past. no one can go back and fantasy of living in the past is a trap.

So, why do I dig deep into the ancient traditional Chinese mind set…etc. because I want to see what exactly they are talking about. and know what the heck they are doing, and hopefully I got the process and I can do it too. once I got the process, hey I live in 2010 with IPAD and Iphone..

As usual, KFF always think he knows but he is fuzzy. and then start making all kind of speculation grasping his own mind. I learn to let it be these days, just let him be who he is.

71

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047471]
Hendrik, You need to go baisi to a good yik kam linage elder to get this info:D[/QUOTE]

Baisi is not a problem for me if their are more knowledgeble then me on the subject.
I always can learn more.

You need to name the name of those so called elderly you mention here if you are serious to present something.

However, if it turns out to be a “he says she says” then it is your responsibility to clean your mess.

72

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047471]sure I do, you are referring to the wrist snap done with localized arm/tricep muscle starting at1:24 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_2IphVRjg&feature=channel

as well as 1:42 in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIQGflqxMY
.[/QUOTE]

The following is your claim in the previous post.

When I do Snap, my whole body is connected as a unit, it’s not just localized.

Read it yourself and ask yourself what the heck you are talking about with my whole body is connected as a unit. While WSL is talking wrist Snap or localization power generation.

my bad the other village wck system that my friend researched was called Namhoi or Nam yeung, but Yahu was the main one.

Make sure you know and clear on what you are talking about and verify before you post something.

73

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047471]sure I do, you are referring to the wrist snap done with localized arm/tricep muscle starting at1:24 into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_2IphVRjg&feature=channel

as well as 1:42 in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIQGflqxMY
.[/QUOTE]

The following is your claim in the previous post.

When I do Snap, my whole body is connected as a unit, it’s not just localized.

Read it yourself and ask yourself what the heck you are talking about?

While WSL is talking Snap or localization power generation — a uniqueness of WCK where power is generated without the need of a whole body connected as a unit.

my bad the other village wck system that my friend researched was called Namhoi or Nam yeung, but Yahu was the main one.

Make sure you know and verify what you are talking about before you post something. Or if you love to be a National Enquirer reporter that is fine with me.

74

LOL!

Nam Hoi (Nan Hai) is in Guang Dong…but Nam Yeung (Nan Yang) is the old name for Singapore! LOL!

KFF, you seem geographically challenged! Get thee to a map!

75

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1047498]The following is your claim in the previous post.

Read it yourself and ask yourself what the heck you are talking about?

While WSL is talking Snap or localization power generation — a uniqueness of WCK where power is generated without the need of a whole body connected as a unit.[/QUOTE]

I was merely stating that the snap power generation can also be done with a connected body as well, since you only seem to know about the localized method.

76

Hendrik,

If I may be so bold, WCK is:

“Lai Lou Hui Soong; Lut Sao Jik Chung”

“Lai Lou” means you have structure…

“Hui Soong” means you be a gentleman and let them in, then when they leave, you send them off…hence your second line can take care of them.

“Lut sao (or Fung Lut) Jik Chung” means you rush in with loss of contact, because, afterall, you are a gentleman. :slight_smile:

77

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047511]I was merely stating that the snap power generation can also be done with a connected body as well,

since you only seem to know about the localized method.[/QUOTE]

Come on dont BULL me. Dont play smart a$$ because the more you play the more you get stuck.

You know why is there a great significant advantage of the Localize Snap? or Inch power Join force?

Why is the mother of WCK the White Crane of Fujian create it and have an advantage over other arts?

and why is the needs of that type of power?

78

[QUOTE=chusauli;1047510]LOL!

Nam Hoi (Nan Hai) is in Guang Dong…but Nam Yeung (Nan Yang) is the old name for Singapore! LOL!

KFF, you seem geographically challenged! Get thee to a map![/QUOTE]

Oops, thanks for the clarification Robert, then it’s Nam Hai for sure.

79

[QUOTE=chusauli;1047512]Hendrik,

If I may be so bold, WCK is:

“Lai Lou Hui Soong; Lut Sao Jik Chung”

“Lai Lou” means you have structure…

“Hui Soong” means you be a gentleman and let them in, then when they leave, you send them off…hence your second line can take care of them.

“Lut sao (or Fung Lut) Jik Chung” means you rush in with loss of contact, because, afterall, you are a gentleman. :)[/QUOTE]

After you know the moon, moon is every where. :smiley:
Since you can do it what you say is right.

80

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1047518]Oops, thanks for the clarification Robert, then it’s Nam Hai for sure.[/QUOTE]

The incapable of getting a simple name correct tell us the quality of the research isnt it?