Fujian white crane fused with emei snake hybrid

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
1

Here is something I found on another forum and thought you guys would find an interesting read.

"Wing Chun uses Crane footwork with Snake upper body theory, but only at the “deflection” combat range. There is a lot of crossover between snake and crane due to the natural progression of the systems. But the fundamental difference is the way in which each system treats force or power. The snake seeks contact at all times to inject and envelop the opponent. Wing Chun does not do this, and Crane seeks a bridge to deliver strikes. If you look at the White Crane Jin under Master Yang’s Ancestral/Sleeping Crane the power manifested from Jin is about force per square inch, or penetration. Which to me is more about flight paths (I’m still a novice with Master Yang’s Baihequan).

Snake Concepts

Structure (and unstructure)
Moment of Timing/Tempo
Spatial Line (centreline, spatial line, vital point, strongpoint)
Intention
Sensitivity

Wing Chun, like snake, actually straddles the spatial line to creation spatial tension to get better sensitivity of the centreline. The snake is all about sensitivity, contact, injection and envelopment. Wing Chun has aspects of this, but it is more like crane due to its striking nature rather than envelopment. Its footwork inhibits it from being circular, instead its about angles and straight line attack, which the snake is not.

What I was meaning was that it uses Crane footwork (or at least the theory behind it) and uses Snake upper body “deflection” range techniques. Ie - that it meets and deflects the opponents force at the spatial vital point (imagine a line between your solar plexus and your opponent’s (spatial line), the “balance point” between the two solar plexus is the spatial vital point).

Wing Chun straddles the spatial line to create a feeling or sensitivity for the space and the centreline, just like the snake. However, where the snake circles, Wing Chun practitioners do not. The instead use the footwork to create angles to the opponent like the crane.

I have thoroughly read Master Yang’s “Essence of White Crane” book, and other material I have found. Although I know Snake, I am only giving my opinions around Crane and its footwork theory. Correct me if you know better"

2

That’s a nice post. Although, Wing Chun uses snake concepts in footwork as well.

3

I don’t see the snake as making contact at all times.
Many times, it comes in with a non-linear trajectory, finding holes in the opponet’s bridge.

Nor do I see it as only enveloping the opponent,
but rather the concept of intercepting th eopponet’s intention-attack the attack, shutting him down at the onset, and continuation of attack until the opponent is subdued.

This is the combined body and mind of the snake.

4

snakes don’t have feet.
:stuck_out_tongue:

5

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1012200]snakes don’t have feet.
:p[/QUOTE]

I slither my way into range. :wink:

6

[QUOTE=couch;1012201]I slither my way into range. ;)[/QUOTE]

Perv !

Thing is, look st a snake or a crane ( they have very different fighting styles), if there are two animals LESS liek WC people, it is these tww.
Snakes are pure “one strike one kill” animals.
Cranes are rarely offensive and rarely attack with forward aggressive pressure.

7

Helen Rocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTrbbzGGnVI&feature=relateduTrbbzGGnVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpwAZg7OLJ0

8

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1012202]Perv !

Thing is, look st a snake or a crane ( they have very different fighting styles), if there are two animals LESS liek WC people, it is these tww.
Snakes are pure “one strike one kill” animals.
Cranes are rarely offensive and rarely attack with forward aggressive pressure.[/QUOTE]

Some snakes bite many times, others not.

Some cranes will attack directly..

As I understand it some VT was thought to be snake and crane–I always thought this to be true.. I see both animals but the crane elements are not typical crane, still there are different crane styles..

9

Helen rocks…

Or you’d like to rock Helen.

Which is it? :wink:

10

What is your intention of proposing into this?

Also, Yang’s White Crane is the post 1800 white crane. while WCK is related to pre 1800 white crane.

Snake is just an analogy of every small details and join of the whole needs to be paid attention, train, and utilized. It is not snake as snake style. Otherwise, it becomes misleading.

As for Snake power, that just means one has details handling on the movement of every join adaptively. because every join is uses or open up or a part of the training then one be able to generate power when others who dont go that far in details think it is not possible. That is the basis of WCK short Jin.

I have post it out but no one believe it. Not you, not those in SEA who like to debunk the Yik Kam kuen kuit disregard of they dont have understanding. …etc
Life is strange. Sometimes one needs to go through all the pain, pay all the money, … spend 40 years in miserable just to find something right infront of one’s eyes. I have gone through that so I know.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=993125&postcount=38

listen to the song,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwbtbfAnI80

the whole situation is just a the lyrics.

…Waiting up in heaven
I was never far from you
Spinning down I felt your every move

I walk alone…

But no one believe it is so closed. thus, no one train in it, thus there is no kungfu. Some rather use CLF or hung gar iron shirt or…etc and thinking that is more powerful, they dont understand the weakest is exactly the strongest. It is counter intuitive.

Want to know what is silence? just wait and dont think anything. that is silence, you own buddha nature, but how many will believe. that buddha nature never die and no one can beat that buddha nature of yours, but then one rather keep defending the ego which is fading away when one is sleeping or die instead of accept nothing needs to be defend, for the buddhanature cannot be created or destroy.

As a humanbeing, mostly only when one’s hope is torn apart and no one can save you, then one sees what is in front of one’s eyes.

…Go tell the world I’m still around
I didn’t fly, I’m coming down
you are the wind, the only sound

Whisper to my heart
when hope is torn apart
and no one can save you …

I would like to take this opportunity to tell those Yik Kam’s decendent in SEA, it is counter intuitive. thus, that is the beauty — within the Yin, Yang is there. CLF, Hung Gar, Southern Shaolin…etc cant get one there because it is a different type of technology.

I speak in such not because I am better then you. it is because there is no different between you and me, and the differences is you dont see what I seen yet.

…You don’t have to see
What I turned out to be
no one can help you …

Only you can help yourself.

“…My winter storm
Holding me awake
It’s never gone
When I walk alone..”

so enjoy your journey.

11

Put down the crack pipe dude.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270]But no one believe it is so closed. thus, no one train in it, thus there is no kungfu. Some rather use CLF or hung gar iron shirt or…etc and thinking that is more powerful, they dont understand the weakest is exactly the strongest. It is counter intuitive…

..I would like to take this opportunity to tell those Yik Kam’s decendent in SEA, it is counter intuitive. thus, that is the beauty — within the Yin, Yang is there. CLF, Hung Gar, Southern Shaolin…etc cant get one there because it is a different type of technology.
[/QUOTE]

Basically you are saying that only Yik Kam’s WCK has the ‘real kung fu’, and is the only thing that can ‘get you there’?!? I bet there’s some CLF or Hung gar guys that would love to show you how they dissagree!

Does Southern Shaolin Chi Sim lack the technology too? I bet that’s exactly what you were thinking when it put you on your a$$ and you were crying “that’s not WC!”… :wink:

12

must be from some one who couldnt even read.

Go back to sleep forever more
Far from your fools and lock the door…

[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1012275]Put down the crack pipe dude.

Basically you are saying that only Yik Kam’s WCK has the ‘real kung fu’, and is the only thing that can ‘get you there’?!? I bet there’s some CLF or Hung gar guys that would love to show you how they dissagree!

Does Southern Shaolin Chi Sim lack the technology too? I bet that’s exactly what you were thinking when it put you on your a$$ and you were crying “that’s not WC!”… ;)[/QUOTE]

13

You certainly free to view it any way you like to based on your own logic and personal agenda.

I certainly fully accept you level of perception for that is who you are.

[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1012275]Put down the crack pipe dude.

Basically you are saying that only Yik Kam’s WCK has the ‘real kung fu’, and is the only thing that can ‘get you there’?!? I bet there’s some CLF or Hung gar guys that would love to show you how they dissagree!

Does Southern Shaolin Chi Sim lack the technology too? I bet that’s exactly what you were thinking when it put you on your a$$ and you were crying “that’s not WC!”… ;)[/QUOTE]

14

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270]I have post it out but no one believe it. Not you, not those in SEA who like to debunk the Yik Kam kuen kuit disregard of they dont have understanding. …etc[/QUOTE]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I understand your snake technology to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM5p6ZkA

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270]What is your intention of proposing into this? [/QUOTE]

No intention I just thought others on here would find it an interesting read

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] ,.

Commentary: This SLT is an advance set which serve the purpose of open up the key nodes/gates and penetrate the path ways [/QUOTE]

So basically your 4 key spinal exercises of how to unlock the snake are just excercises of how to the open the energy gates of the body?

so your snake energy is no different than the energy developed in yi quan or standing stake in any of the internal arts ?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] Why horizontal power? In order to have a complete basic power generation; There are two type of fundamental power which are needed, these two basic elements are the vertical power and the horizontal power. From the combination of the two basic elements the six directional force vectors are composed.[/QUOTE]

Can you discribe what the horizontal power is? Is horizontal power and spinal torque power the same thing?

How is horizontal power applied?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] The movement is described as how snake slide and pupa move.[/QUOTE]

Is your spine the snake and the rest of your body the pupa

15

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012334]You certainly free to view it any way you like to based on your own logic and personal agenda.

I certainly fully accept you level of perception for that is who you are.[/QUOTE]

And the best advice begins at home.

So when your personal agenda causes you to repeatedly to write such things as this…

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012334]
I would like to take this opportunity to tell those Yik Kam’s decendent in SEA, it is counter intuitive. thus, that is the beauty — within the Yin, Yang is there. CLF, Hung Gar, Southern Shaolin…etc cant get one there because it is a different type of technology.
[/QUOTE]

My logic dictates that if Yik Kam’s decendent wasn’t capable of dealing with my Sihing’s John Murphy’s energy upon first engagement.

Then Yik Kam’s decendent’s needs different type of technology.

One that works!

16

This too I completely accept with love. You are free to think as you like.

[QUOTE=duende;1012338]And the best advice begins at home.

So when your personal agenda causes you to repeatedly to write such things as this…

My logic dictates that if Yik Kam’s decendent wasn’t capable of dealing with my Sihing’s John Murphy’s energy upon first engagement.

Then Yik Kam’s decendent’s needs different type of technology.

One that works![/QUOTE]

17

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270]I have post it out but no one believe it. Not you, not those in SEA who like to debunk the Yik Kam kuen kuit disregard of they dont have understanding. …etc[/QUOTE]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I understand your snake technology to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM5p6ZkA

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270]What is your intention of proposing into this? [/QUOTE]

No intention I just thought others on here would find it an interesting read

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] ,.

Commentary: This SLT is an advance set which serve the purpose of open up the key nodes/gates and penetrate the path ways [/QUOTE]

So basically your 4 key spinal exercises of how to unlock the snake are just excercises of how to the open the energy gates of the body?

so your snake energy is no different than the energy developed in yi quan or standing stake in any of the internal arts ?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] Why horizontal power? In order to have a complete basic power generation; There are two type of fundamental power which are needed, these two basic elements are the vertical power and the horizontal power. From the combination of the two basic elements the six directional force vectors are composed.[/QUOTE]

Can you discribe what the horizontal power is? Is horizontal power and spinal torque power the same thing?

How is horizontal power applied?

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012270] The movement is described as how snake slide and pupa move.[/QUOTE]

Is your spine the snake and the rest of your body the pupa

18

Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I understand your snake technology to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM5p6ZkA

What you see here is the result. It is not a technology.

different technology can reach this point if the technology has the components and depth. However, not all technology can goes that far even if one spend a life time on it.

There is no only one path to the summit. however, one must know the path can actually lead to the summit and know how to take the path.

So how to do what is in the clip? simple when one could dissolve one’s own force vector and other feel like totally lost its balance and needs to pull back. as for how to dissolve one’s own force vector that rely on if one’s technology can get one there.

So basically your 4 key spinal exercises of how to unlock the snake are just excercises of how to the open the energy gates of the body?

It doesnt have to be 4 it doesnt have to be 6 it can be anything. However, the Yik Kam lineage sum up everything into 4 cycle in the closing salutation of SLT.

as it said,

Huen Kaam Tiu Taap always needed,
Sword fingers wing elbow here I present to the hero.

To open or unlock,
That involve an idea/philosophy/concept since every technology has to start with an idea, and basic elements how to implement the idea in the realm of body, mind, breathing, and Qi. Body is energy, mind is energy, breathing is energy, qi is energy.

and the subtle part is the sequence of how to deal with the realm of body, mind.. breathing direct or indirectly.

Until one has a proper basic 99% of one cant speculate because it is an experience based not a speculation thinking based issue.

so your snake energy is no different than the energy developed in yi quan or standing stake in any of the internal arts ?

Energy is Energy, there is no different with your energy or mine energy. The different is you might be able to use energy in a certain way I dont know. or use in a certain way better then me.

But standing there itself will not get one there, also mimic the taichi reel silk will not get one there because it involve technics of manipulation to get one resonance in a state which I called orbiting. and orbiting in that proper track to lead one to get to even high energy orbiting state…etc.

Thus, one can stand fo 100000 years, if one doesnt know what one intent to develop , one will not get there.

That is very different then to cultivate silence, as I said, just let go the mind and silence it there. One can attain the silence, but if one would like to use one’s computer one still needs that technics of operating the computer.

Certainly, one needs to know the silence because it is the based of everything/ energy. however, one needs to know different type of energy and how to resonance in that state…etc. similar to one needs to know how to make different tune even if one knows silence is the based of all music.

similarly, one could practice a life time of Tan bong fok …etc but doesnt know WingChun moves has no block. similar to snake slide, it doesnt walk,

Can you discribe what the horizontal power is? Is horizontal power and spinal torque power the same thing?

Horizontal power is the definition of force issue out horizontally.
Spinal torgue power is about spinal. spinal must not use power at all. and thus there is no spinal torque power could be used. As it said, the spinal has hundreds of join similar to boneless, it must not be force to do a certain things.

How is horizontal power applied?

Same with how one applied vertical power with sun punch. but using whip arm or elbow or other tools…

Is your spine the snake and the rest of your body the pupa

Snake slide pupal move means every joins is doing snake slide and pupal disregards of any place in the body.

It also means nothing is force out directly. that is the boomerang effect of WCK. and it is actually a butterfly effect similar to small vibration will resonance or snowball into something drastic where. Nothing direct, everything is retrograte and recursive it is all about resonance.

thus, WCK might look direct but that is just an appearance. the engine is spiral and resonance in nature. thus, that is the engine to power the Come accept, Goes return…
no block because it is about resonance and keep increasing the momentum, it just doesnt stop and restart.

Thus, it is not Hung Gar iron wire, it is not Southern Shaolin, it is not white crane, it is not CLF. those are different technology.

19

For anyone who is seriously intend to dig deep into the root of WCK.

Emei 12 zhuang’s kuen kuit. Some one wants to translate these and let everyone sees what is this “snake” means and compare with WCK? see how close or how far…

Big Picture description:

Application description :

Siu (as in Siu Lien Tau) Description:

20

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1012334]You certainly free to view it any way you like to based on your own logic and personal agenda.[/QUOTE]

Nice try, but I’m only repying to words YOU used. If I have it wrong, then what did you mean when you said

“But no one believe it is so closed. thus, no one train in it, thus there is no kungfu. Some rather use CLF or hung gar iron shirt or…etc and thinking that is more powerful, they dont understand the weakest is exactly the strongest. It is counter intuitive…”

and

“..I would like to take this opportunity to tell those Yik Kam’s decendent in SEA, it is counter intuitive. thus, that is the beauty — within the Yin, Yang is there. CLF, Hung Gar, Southern Shaolin…etc cant get one there because it is a different type of technology.”

Sounds like you are saying only Yik Kam knows the way to the top of the mountain… To me, this sounds very much like an agenda. And quite insulting too.