Hello all,
A new article will be out very soon.
Please Check Rene’s site shortly.
Regards,
A mystery indeed!
It wouldn’t be about this would it? :eek: 
Part 1 went up this morning, Parts 2 & 3 will follow during the week:
http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=107&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Here’s the teaser:
Emei Connection: Wing Chun and the Twelve Posts
“A few months ago I found out Grandmaster Fu Wei Zhong, the 13th lineage holder of the 800 year old Emei tradition, was coming to Boston. I contacted a few of my friends who study Alchemy/Qi Gong/Martial Arts to ask if they wanted to come with me to meet the Grandmaster of this science. One of my teachers and one of my training partners decided to sign up. The event was five days, 9am-5pm, with an hour for lunch (and lunch turned out to be some of my most memorable moments). What follows is a discussion of my experiences with this exceptional man…”
Good stuff. I wonder what the VT Museum and HFY108 have to say about this?
Hi Jim R.
I look forward to reading the whole article. Hopefully you will go into what corrections were made in your stance by the emei master.
Incidentally there are different kinds of yoga that originated in India and I think became part of different transmissions which were adapted and adopted locally in different ways and places. Yoga at its best is also a physical/mental/spiritual discipline. The old Indian martial arts included some versions of yoga in their disciplines.
But coming by analogy and metaphorically to the snake and crane- yoga standing postures include the concept of the central axis- in my language(Bengali)-the seerda(n)ra-
the spinal standing energy channel…and esoteric Hinduism and Buddhism and Tantra- adds the kundalini- the serpent power- the coiling and uncoiling energy-which first using the axis and then other channels works its way through the entire body. The fusion has health and martial implications. Thanks for sharing your encounter with the emei master. Look forward to reading the rest.
Joy Chaudhuri
I apologize for the delay in posting, I was without electricity for a couple days (and unlike where Joy lives, Montreal is not a dry heat 
)
I’ve put up a few more sections, and will hopefully have it done later today. (In between catching up on, ya know, real work…)
Hello,
A-lich!
I am sure some will enjoy it and some will not. Its all good!
Joy,
The corrections made were directed towards the Snake Hand stuff and not the YJKYM. The YJKYM and GM Fu’s Wu stance were the same. Thanks for the info on Yoga stuff. GM Fu’s art is not Martial Art synthesis but rather physical/mental holistic balance. The art is very Chinese! Comparing it to Yoga was the best way to bring the point accross of its practices. I dont want people to think these guys are Snake Boxers with combat training. This is not the case.
Look forward to more comments!
Jim’s theory is not mutually exclusive to what has come before–it’s complementary.
If you personally believe in the Ng Mui/Yim Wing-Chun version, with Ng Mui being the White Crane mistress, then this just helps clarify what the Snake element could have been.
If you personally believe in the Jee Shim/Shaolin account, this just helps clarify why Wing Chun Kuen is different from other types of Southern Fist.
And the same holds true for other theories. Whatever the “next step” or “shift” might have been, this is a candidate to help explain and elaborate it.
Snake and Crane
Rene- agreed. The metaphor of the snake finds a root.
In some versions of the interesting Ng Mui story- she finds a refuge in a temple.
As discussed before-these are not definite histories in the “modern” sense of a documentary history of the New Deal etc. But metaphors can be important sources of insight.
Jim-Not a “martial synthesis”…perhaps not in fighting by the emei monks- but the
emei drawings that Hendrik has, that I have seen clearly show martial postures which suggest both martial structure and function. One I recall- has two person interaction- the stance is there with a palm to the chest. The paths of martial energy are quite apparent if seen in a non dualistic way IMO..
joy chaudhuri
Hey Joy,
Certainly if someone watched the 12 Way or Emei art they would indeed think it was Kung Fu proper. All the elements of Kung Fu proper are there but the emphacis is directed towards the Healing/Enlightment.
Its similar to when someone see’s some part of our art and says that is a technique. Someone else see’s the same thing and says that is cultivation. And so on. My only concern with this info was that WC people may think these guys are Snake fighters and look to them for that. Its not the case.
Yet! We have something very very interesting to think about with that in mind.
How about our Bai Jong?
Most south fist and Fukien Crane arts use the Open Door type policy yet Wing Chun align the wrist on centerline. In the Emei art, when the practitioner performs his sets, the hands line up in front of the chest or heart area, elbows relaxed down and wrists lined up on centerline with the front side of the back hand (pinky edge) lightly touching the Back of the lead hand on the Thumb side edge. This pretty much forms the Bai Jong of WCK. Is this how Miao Shun possibly took the Hut Yee Sao (beggar hand) open door policy of South Fist and concetrate it to a different approach? His Snake and Crane way?
Lots to think about with this stuff. GM Fu’s generosity opens lots more room for future research.
Snake & Crane
Hey guys,
Emei Snake
Is this our Yi Ji Kim Yeung Ma roots?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=733307854123782601&q=Emei
What if the above was blended with the below:
Fukien White Crane
http://www.fujianbaihe.com/fujianbaihe/index.html
Would the results possibly be our Snake and Crane?
Hey RR,
Jim’s theory is not mutually exclusive to what has come before–it’s complementary.
If you personally believe in the Ng Mui/Yim Wing-Chun version, with Ng Mui being the White Crane mistress, then this just helps clarify what the Snake element could have been.
If you personally believe in the Jee Shim/Shaolin account, this just helps clarify why Wing Chun Kuen is different from other types of Southern Fist.
And the same holds true for other theories. Whatever the “next step” or “shift” might have been, this is a candidate to help explain and elaborate it.
I agree!
I also think this can show an important possiblity of why mutual friendship between the two families! If Lee Man Mao was a White Crane guy who lead the troups and the Soft Crane family shows up and are accepted in as friends to the Junks. Why? Chinese are very tribal and different clans do not get along. Heck! People from different towns dont even get along! Why then did the Lee Man Mao White Crane and the Soft Snake & Crane of the Yim family become friends? Was it because they Both Share the Same Root? From the same Family? Is this why the two arts stories are so intertwined and have been associated in some ways for many generations including today?
The Soft Crane art and the White Crane boys may have used their ancestral roots as grounds for friendship and sharing.
Peace,
Looks more like the pee pee dance !
just put him outside of a long line at a bathroom ,he would fit right in !:eek:
Hey E,
ROFLOL
Too funny! Hey! An old mantis friend used to call our YJKYM:
The woman p1ssing stance!
So, your not the only one with that thought.
HAHAHA Ernie …good one…I do the same chi gong in a bar in the line…
Rene… here in ottawa no problem of electricity …but very hot this last week …
I have to read more ur article to be able to comment ....but the goal is to demystify from where WC came..right ? The legend of Ng Mui like the pere Noel(santa claus) here ...I really like ur work...
Does U could find some reference between yes the shaolin(hard style) and the internal style like Hsing I or pakua in Wing Chun?
came back soon
Steeve
Joy, Jim,
My two cents
IMHO,
reading the classical kuit of the 12 zhuang.
the dragon, Pheonix, Wind, and Cloud set of the 12 zhuang are combat specific.
The small letter set or Siu Set is also combat spacific — it embeded the idea of using the seven star steping to break the other type of footwork…
In additional, in the begining of the kuen of the whole 12 sets, it said, “gentlely dissolve the enermy within split of inch.” thus, IMHO, it is that healer with mercy and compassionate never want to emphasis about destruction but construction. so, the martial part never being purposely emphasis such as a sport practice. that is the tradition of the art.
Samething as what was said in the Yik Kam’s kuit – " Yim yee is advance in his art but he never reveal it. until he met Leong who is person with excellent nature and can be rely on… so he invit Leong to his home…
Peace
RR,
You have an excellent point about the art believe of Shao LIn and Emei…
also,
As we can see from even the comparison of GM WY and GM Ip Man in WCK.com. These two GMs practice different type of arts because the seed or DNA of their arts are different in many ways including the power signature, awareness based /predictive based signature…
Wing Chun Kuen originate case IMHO can be closed soon.
Peace
Hey Hendrik,
IMHO, it is that healer with mercy and compassionate never want to emphasis about destruction but construction. so, the martial part never being purposely emphasis such as a sport practice. that is the tradition of the art.
Totally agree. The art is very Chinese and much similarity can be found in Kung Fu proper. The certainly must have had some chuan focus as the art also has weaponry for protection and tool usage. I would have no doubt believing in the tranformation process of the body and if GM Miao Shun was from Emei this sets our ancestral roots based in two Giants of Chinese history: 800 year tradition of Emei Snake and 350 year tradition of the Fukien Crane. This would make for quite a Paradigm shift in South Fist technology and the possible reason why Wing Chun was the super system of its time.
Go Miao Shun!
Hello,
The small letter set or Siu Set is also combat spacific —
In the Emei 12 zhuang they have the 12 ways and 6 Steps.
In Leung Jan PSWC art he has the Sup Yi Do Keung (12 ways of the fist) and 6 extensions.
Two of the Emei 12 ways are:
Siu Zhuang (little ways)
Dai Zhuang (big ways)
The first two of Leung Jan’s Sup Yi Do Kuen are:
Siu Lin (little training)
Dai Lin (big training)
Perhaps Leung Jan was paying homage to the ancestral Snake system?
Peace,
Jim and Hendrik posts:
From different sources both of you have IMO given a credible link between
the complex metaphors of the crane and the snake. Good work on historical roots.
Congratulations.
But as I try to point out often it can be a problem on generalising for all wing chun
folks. Wing chun practices are quite diverse depending on who is teaching whom.
Although they may not use the same language some folks have consistently used the synthesis of the snake and crane though there might be differences in verbal expressions and usage..
The problem of overgeneraization about wing chun happens frequently on forums…IMO.On forums we generally are caught up in our own perceptions.
joy