SLT without Chum Kil is not functional, so why do attribute so much “engine” to SLT ? It needs dynamics of movement. The addition of dealing with dynamic force , momentum in a fight is a skill we focus on and take advantage of with centerline fighting.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211000]SLT without Chum Kil is not functional, so why do attribute so much “engine” to SLT ? Its need dynamics of movement. The addition f dealing with dynamic force , momentum in a fight is a skill we focus on and take advantage of with centerline fighting.[/QUOTE]
SLT without CK not being functional Kev??? That is totally preposterous! Absolute nonsense! No way! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211000]SLT without Chum Kil is not functional, so why do attribute so much “engine” to SLT ? Its need dynamics of movement. The addition f dealing with dynamic force , momentum in a fight is a skill we focus on and take advantage of with centerline fighting.[/QUOTE]
All that doesn’t work if you donr get slt, and the engine, right
For once I’d go with Hendrick
Personally I’d say SNT and CK are as important as each other. CK doesn’t work without SNT and SNT is useless without the mobility of CK. SNT facilitates being able to engage with CK.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211000]SLT without Chum Kil is not functional, so why do attribute so much “engine” to SLT ? Its need dynamics of movement. The addition f dealing with dynamic force , momentum in a fight is a skill we focus on and take advantage of with centerline fighting.[/QUOTE]
Y’know I aint posted here in a while now and THIS post is a true gem 
It actually proves your ignorance to any Wing Chun teaching that existed prior to Ip Man, but in fact I think you PBWSL dudes discount anything anybody taught before our dear Philip Bayer?! I often wonder if he knows or will even remember you seminar guys?
Anyway, enough about that. Why don’t you look at some of the history about Wing Chun Kev and try and grasp the fact that the 3 forms we see today never existed like that in the earlier practices. The ideas of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee were already embedded in the original set, hence why it is named Siu Lien Tau and not Siu Nim tau. It simply is not the same set.
This is only ONE of quite a few versions but I think it gives an idea of what I’m trying to say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRbpfs31N20
Now this isn’t to say that I understand what the hell Hendrik yaps about half the time, but I do see and am trying to get to know more about the mainland and operatic families that still exist today. In fact I have known some practitioners since 1999 and all their forms are different to what Ip Man taught BUT they contain the same, if not identical principles.
Maybe you should get off the couch and get out more…
Ah yes spencer the flag waving hand chaser and his rebuttal. Dude you’re a joke period, your clips prove it .
[QUOTE=Graham H;1211012]SLT without CK not being functional Kev??? That is totally preposterous! Absolute nonsense! No way! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D[/QUOTE]
I know crazy talk . I can defeat ninjas and MMA takedowns with snake engine coiled in my pelvis .( that just sounds wrong ; ) )
Y’know I aint posted here in a while now and THIS post is a true gem
Ahhh Spencer you are back. Horaa! 
It actually proves your ignorance to any Wing Chun teaching that existed prior to Ip Man, but in fact I think you PBWSL dudes discount anything anybody taught before our dear Philip Bayer?! I often wonder if he knows or will even remember you seminar guys?
I don’t care what was before Ip Man. In fact as I’ve never met Ip Man and can’t question him I will disregard that nonsense as well. What PB teaches is functional. Who cares about the politics behind it all?
Anyway, enough about that. Why don’t you look at some of the history about Wing Chun Kev and try and grasp the fact that the 3 forms we see today never existed like that in the earlier practices. The ideas of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee were already embedded in the original set, hence why it is named Siu Lien Tau and not Siu Nim tau. It simply is not the same set.
Spencer whilst I admire your clinging to days gone by it should make no difference to what we learn today. These are different times. There is so much BS surrounding the whole legacy of Ip Man and what has come since that at best we can have respect for the man himself and that is it.
Everybody has their own opinion on Wing Chun and there are too many “closed door” muppets pushing fantastical systems of Kung Fu on to the public and all they need to give themselves any credit is a picture of Ip Man above the Jong and pages of jackanory pointless garbage!
I am yet to find a school of Ip Man inspired Kung Fu that isn’t laden with c88p!
In the case of my lineage we are practicing what WSL taught to PB and his students over many years. WSL always said that he taught what Ip Man taught him albeit a little more systematic. That is where the truth ends and the BS starts as soon as things go on to YouTube and are viewed by people who have no first hand experience of what they are looking at.
Maybe you can point me in the direction of a school that isn’t full of s**t. By that I mean no BS, certificates and kung fu pyjama schools who wave flags and worship dead guys 
Toodle pip
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211000]SLT without Chum Kil is not functional, so why do attribute so much “engine” to SLT ? Its need dynamics of movement. The addition f dealing with dynamic force , momentum in a fight is a skill we focus on and take advantage of with centerline fighting.[/QUOTE]
Your question is a classical for westerner who is not familiar with traditional Chinese martial art system.
In tradition Chinese art, theRe has to be a Kung or body of the art and the fatt or application of the art. The body of the art support the application, the application express the power of the body of the art.
The body of the art include many things including the power generation development, structure. Joints handling…ect. In a specific way to support the applications.
Siu nim tau or siu Lin tau set of the three sets is the training to develop the body of the art. In WCK that body of the art is said to be the snake body. Why? It has a characteristics of coil spring be able to shoot or accept the impact from the center line. The two kuen kuits share here from the red boat era is the description and instruction of the siu Lin tau.
Siu nim tau is focus on "direct " coil spring momentum
Chum kil needs that siu Lin tau of basic to extended to a “roundabout " coil spring momentum
Biu jee extended further to " recover” coil spring momentum.
One needs to develop the "direct " coil sprint before can further extend to roundabout , then only after roundabout , to recovery. Instead jump step and missing the foundation. That is the design of the WCK when the one long set is split into three sets 1850 era, as we know today .
Now, IMHO, WCK has an issue if the siu nim tau body of the art is not develop. As Hawkin asking “do you have the snake body?” in his YouTube. However, today,most don’t develop this body of the art but thinking a default muscle strength to push is what it needs. Or rooting like hung gar or moving like taiji with round hip…etc which is not the development of the siu Lin Tau design for.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211044]Your question is a classical for westerner who is not familiar with traditional Chinese martial art system.
In tradition Chinese art, theRe has to be a Kung or body of the art and the fatt or application of the art. The body of the art support the application, the application express the power of the body of the art.
The body of the art include many things including the power generation development, structure. Joints handling…ect. In a specific way to support the applications.
Siu nim tau or siu Lin tau set of the three sets is the training to develop the body of the art. In WCK that body of the art is said to be the snake body. Why? It has a characteristics of coil spring be able to shoot or accept the impact from the center line. The two kuen kuits share here from the red boat era is the description and instruction of the siu Lin tau.
Siu nim tau is focus on "direct " coil spring momentum
Chum kil needs that siu Lin tau of basic to extended to a “roundabout " coil spring momentum
Biu jee extended further to " recover” coil spring momentum.
One needs to develop the "direct " coil sprint before can further extend to roundabout , then only after roundabout , to recovery. Instead jump step and missing the foundation. That is the design of the WCK when the one long set is split into three sets 1850 era, as we know today .
Now, IMHO, WCK has an issue if the siu nim tau body of the art is not develop. As Hawkin asking “do you have the snake body?” in his YouTube. However, today,most don’t develop this body of the art but thinking a default muscle strength to push is what it needs. Or rooting like hung gar or moving like taiji with round hip…etc which is not the development of the siu Lin Tau design for.[/QUOTE]
Hendrik- with the above post your writing and explanation is getting better.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1211048]----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrik- with the above post your writing and explanation is getting better.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! I try!
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211044]Your question is a classical for westerner who is not familiar with traditional Chinese martial art system.
In tradition Chinese art, theRe has to be a Kung or body of the art and the fatt or application of the art. The body of the art support the application, the application express the power of the body of the art.
The body of the art include many things including the power generation development, structure. Joints handling…ect. In a specific way to support the applications.
Siu nim tau or siu Lin tau set of the three sets is the training to develop the body of the art. In WCK that body of the art is said to be the snake body. Why? It has a characteristics of coil spring be able to shoot or accept the impact from the center line. The two kuen kuits share here from the red boat era is the description and instruction of the siu Lin tau.
Siu nim tau is focus on "direct " coil spring momentum
Chum kil needs that siu Lin tau of basic to extended to a “roundabout " coil spring momentum
Biu jee extended further to " recover” coil spring momentum.
One needs to develop the "direct " coil sprint before can further extend to roundabout , then only after roundabout , to recovery. Instead jump step and missing the foundation. That is the design of the WCK when the one long set is split into three sets 1850 era, as we know today .
Now, IMHO, WCK has an issue if the siu nim tau body of the art is not develop. As Hawkin asking “do you have the snake body?” in his YouTube. However, today,most don’t develop this body of the art but thinking a default muscle strength to push is what it needs. Or rooting like hung gar or moving like taiji with round hip…etc which is not the development of the siu Lin Tau design for.[/QUOTE]
You’re talking sh&t dude, like your clips you don’t show fighting, you espouse intellectual servitude to your ‘cult’ approach… show me a fight and you moving to use the ‘idea’.
I claim bull****, prove it.
Joy you brown-noser
The most fundamental basic od the siu nim tau snake body is a training of the handling of ones seven major joints of the physical body. How these seven joints used as an integration, separation, joint by joint in sequence, joints synchronization, within the philosophy of using center guarding center philosophy of the wing Chun kuen.
Hendrick
What do you mean by moving like Tai Ji with round hip?
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211050]You’re talking sh&t dude, like your clips you don’t show fighting, you espouse intellectual servitude to your ‘cult’ approach… show me a fight and you moving to use the ‘idea’.
I claim bull****, prove it.[/QUOTE]
Take a look at 7.4 to the end , on WCK siu Lin tau and second form or chum kil form.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3hLnXD8SlA
Btw, it is from Hawkins the student of Ipman , the classmate of WSL .
Perhaps , it is you in a cult thinking your cult way, but not WCK as from Ipman?
Btw, I am just open the curtain, sure many don’t like it, those who following cult, those who proclaim as guru, those who create their own WCK , are expected to not like what they see under the sun.
Today wcner has a good view from 2013 to 1850
[QUOTE=cobra;1211054]What do you mean by moving like Tai Ji with round hip?[/QUOTE]
Moving the hip to rotate Dan Dian.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211056]Take a look at 8.44 to the end , on WCK siu Lin tau and second form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3hLnXD8SlA
Btw, it is from Hawkins the student of Ipman , the classmate of WSL . Perhaps , it is you in a cult thinking your cult way, but not WCK as from Ipman?[/QUOTE]
Show me your idea…I can see HC using ..!! Chum Kil !! I dont agree with his thinking, I have visited ( yawn not again ) personally and chi-saoed with his ideas. Not impressed, but at least I am talking from experience ( not ego ) . It was a friendly visit and he is a really nice guy. I also met WSL lineage various uk, spain , usa branches, HK too, direct students of WSL and WSL himself…‘hands on’ and frankly a name doesn’t ensure any kind of quality or steadfast thinking on the same lines…
You need to get out of your living room and play in a gym full of A type boxers, mma, mt…hit a heavy bag for 3 minutes straight ( not a lot ; ) ) using your snake engine
???
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211051]Joy you brown-noser :D[/QUOTE]
There are lots of things in Hendrik;s post that I disagree with. But he is spot on regarding the fundamental importance of the slt without which motions in ck and bj can fail.
First the development- the kung- before the applications- fatt.
I try to give credit when I think it’s due.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211061]Show me your idea…I can see HC using ..!! Chum Kil !! I dont agree with his thinking, I have visited ( yawn not again ) personally and chi-saoed with his ideas. Not impressed, but at least I am talking from experience ( not ego ) . It was a friendly visit and he is a really nice guy. I also met WSL lineage various uk, spain , usa branches, HK too, direct students of WSL and WSL himself…‘hands on’ and frankly a name doesn’t ensure any kind of quality or steadfast thinking on the same lines…
You need to get out of your living room and play in a gym full of A type boxers, mma, mt…hit a heavy bag for 3 minutes straight ( not a lot ; ) ) using your snake engine :D[/QUOTE]
WCK is WCK .
What you see and what you want to believe is upto you.