[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211066]WCK is WCK .
What you see and what you want to believe is upto you.[/QUOTE]
Ving Tsun is a definable skill, not an art open to subjective interpretation. It is open to comprehension issues due to its abstract nature.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211070]Ving Tsun is a definable skill, not an art open to subjective interpretation. It is open to comprehension issues due to its abstract nature.[/QUOTE]
No siu nim tau no WCK. That is the bottom line.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211071]No siu nim tau no WCK. That is the bottom line.[/QUOTE]
Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependent on angling and movement to work. Like the weapons we use, we too need to change positions and counter attack, etc… a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc…you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless…you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211076]Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependant on angling and movement to work.
Like the wepons we use we too need to changes positions and counter attack, etc… a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc…you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.
Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless…you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.[/QUOTE]
By evidence of your post,
You don’t understand the body of the art, but keeping address application of the art.
That is just 1/2 of WCK.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211078]By evidence of your post,
You don’t understand the body of the art, but keeping address application of the art.
That is just 1/2 of WCK.[/QUOTE]
No, you are playing the bs card here by trying to mask your inability to fight or show you fighting with it in a simple exchange, hell even chi-sao 
And not a balloon in your living room, balloons dont fight back 
Show me SLT alone fighting…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211076]Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependent on angling and movement to work. Like the weapons we use, we too need to change positions and counter attack, etc… a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc…you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless…you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.[/QUOTE]
Well your half right, wc is angles and moving a around a little , but that is the beginning stage, there is more beyond that, a lot more.
I think the reason you haven’t experienced it, is usually people that know it don’t care if you don’t have it and don’t have ego problem to show you up, so they just shine you on and tell your stuff is good, because they don’t like you and are not interested in showing someone with big ego or for whatever reason they have, I see it happen all the time.
That’s what happens when you visit other people who are not really close friends.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1211083]Well your half right, wc is angles and moving a around a little , but that is the beginning stage, there is more beyond that, a lot more.
I think the reason you haven’t experienced it, is usually people that know it don’t care if you don’t have it and don’t have ego problem to show you up, so they just shine you on and tell your stuff is good, because they don’t like you and are not interested in showing someone with big ego or for whatever reason they have, I see it happen all the time.
That’s what happens when you visit other people who are not really close friends.[/QUOTE]
1/2 right ? okay, what do think I am missing ?
more beyond that, a lot more.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211091]1/2 right ? okay, what do think I am missing ?[/QUOTE]
Well , I think that that is half that Henrick is trying to explain, but to cut to the chase, it is the half that does not rely on body level movement.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1211094]Well , I think that that is half that Henrick is trying to explain, but to cut to the chase, it is the half that does not rely on body level movement.[/QUOTE]
So you think angling and moving is the beginning stage, and SLT is after ??
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211080]No, you are playing the bs card here by trying to mask your inability to fight or show you fighting with it in a simple exchange, hell even chi-sao And not a balloon in your living room, balloons dont fight back
Show me SLT alone fighting…[/QUOTE]
You still don’t know wing Chun kuen disregard of how you get into emotion.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1211083]Well your half right, wc is angles and moving a around a little , but that is the beginning stage, there is more beyond that, a lot more.
I think the reason you haven’t experienced it, is usually people that know it don’t care if you don’t have it and don’t have ego problem to show you up, so they just shine you on and tell your stuff is good, because they don’t like you and are not interested in showing someone with big ego or for whatever reason they have, I see it happen all the time.
That’s what happens when you visit other people who are not really close friends.[/QUOTE]
As I post above, there are three major core in WCK, namely, direct momentum handling, roundabout momentum handling, and recovery momentum handling.
In each of the momentum handling , it consists of the engine which driven it and the technics which manual it.
And each of these core build up from the other, the recovery on top of the roundabout, the roundabout on top of the direct, the direct is the most basic. That is the siu Lin Tau teaching.
However, when one cant even read post properly and keep close within ones own turned vision. One can not see what it is, what others is adressing.
Some keep posting how good they can fight…ect. But if they can’t even cool thier head and read , they can not even know what is going on.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211104]You still don’t know wing Chun kuen disregard of how you get into emotion.[/QUOTE]
Ah thank you all seeing guitar playing, balloon fighting, living room warrior, I see clearly now…and I thought I had pretty good punch, thank you for revealing all the fights I had where wrong.( Drops head in shame )
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1211019]
Anyway, enough about that. Why don’t you look at some of the history about Wing Chun Kev and try and grasp the fact that the 3 forms we see today never existed like that in the earlier practices. The ideas of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee were already embedded in the original set, hence why it is named Siu Lien Tau and not Siu Nim tau. It simply is not the same set.
[/QUOTE]
This is factually incorrect.
The 3 forms existed as far back as Wong Wa Bo/Leung Yi Tai. In my own lineage we have them as far back as Hung Gun Biu, if not further.
Siu Lein Tao means little drilling in the beginning - it’s the concept of drilling mechanics around an idea. In the case of Yik Kam’s wing chun, it seems he felt that the snake engine was a big deal (assuming Hendrik represents that teaching correctly… which is a big assumption) so he built a drilling set around it.
Siu Nim Tao means the little idea in the beginning - is the ability to focus on the concepts of wing chun and how to manifest them in structure. It’s not a drilling set of the hands, it’s a drilling set for the mind.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1211115]This is factually incorrect.
The 3 forms existed as far back as Wong Wa Bo/Leung Yi Tai. In my own lineage we have them as far back as Hung Gun Biu, if not further.
Siu Lein Tao means little drilling in the beginning - it’s the concept of drilling mechanics around an idea. In the case of Yik Kam’s wing chun, it seems he felt that the snake engine was a big deal (assuming Hendrik represents that teaching correctly… which is a big assumption) so he built a drilling set around it.
Siu Nim Tao means the little idea in the beginning - is the ability to focus on the concepts of wing chun and how to manifest them in structure. It’s not a drilling set of the hands, it’s a drilling set for the mind.[/QUOTE]
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Snake body is a common denominator of the red boat era WCK lineages. As one can see it exist in the snake crane WCK lineage, the yik kam lineage, the Ipman lineage as Hawkin recently present it to the public.
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Both The siu Lin tau long set of yik kam and the siu nim tau, ck, and biu jee set develop the snake engine or snake body. Snake body or snake engine is the Kung part of WCK.
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Both the long siu Lin tau set of yik kam and the three sets has five layers, the physical, mind, breathing , qi , and. Momentum, force change, center line capture layers.
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We know today what is the very very likely reason of is spliting a long set type system to the three sets type system in 1850. And can pin point to two persons who were responsible to this WCK evolution and why.
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The siu nim Tao of the three sets was kept in the evolution of reorganization to three sets system to cultivate the Kung. Namely, the snake body is one of the target of development. So, siu Lin Tau is the process of transform into the snake body crane limbs. Only after that, ck, bj for further development. And finally return to only siu Lin tau because all three sets merge into one when the movement become smaller and smaller.
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The long set was evolve away due to the complex of the internal content and application . The three sets is a much better system to learn for application in short time, however with a trade off of risking totally losing the Kung and internal engine part. Evolve into only application without engine.
This theard is the evidence of many has losing the Kung or body of the art or engine. Thus, they think as they think.
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I design the drill as the intermidiate step to aid one get transform while practicing the sets.
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No one has to agree with me, the above is my reasons of why I do what.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1211115]The 3 forms existed as far back as Wong Wa Bo/Leung Yi Tai. In my own lineage we have them as far back as Hung Gun Biu, if not further.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was suggesting, I gave no indication as to where, when or who divided the single set into three. I know others have done much research into this but I don’t really see that as important either, no matter how far you think they go back as a divided set. The fact is there are lineages around to this day that still teach a single set, and variations of a single set, rather than have a distinct 3 forms called SNT, CK and BJ.
I do also agree with Hendrik that there is much to the traditional arts that is missing from our more modern Wing Chun system today. This includes flag waving and turning rings of fire
Somethings however DO stay the same, and that is our system still seems to have a ‘Bragger’ or two…
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1211134]This is what I was suggesting, I gave no indication as to where, when or who divided the single set into three. I know others have done much research into this but I don’t really see that as important either, no matter how far you think they go back as a divided set. The fact is there are lineages around to this day that still teach a single set, and variations of a single set, rather than have a distinct 3 forms called SNT, CK and BJ.
I do also agree with Hendrik that there is much to the traditional arts that is missing from our more modern Wing Chun system today. This includes flag waving and turning rings of fire
Somethings however DO stay the same, and that is our system still seems to have a ‘Bragger’ or two…[/QUOTE]
One set or three sets, the general core is there. The one set get into the internal engine training deeper, while the three sets teaching the application in a more systematic clear way.
I think future wcners can learn both. To give them a wider view.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211096]So you think angling and moving is the beginning stage, and SLT is after ??[/QUOTE]
SLT is always there, it is just training aid. Body level movement of angling and moving is beginning stage of learning, how to get past that is the mystery.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1211139]SLT is always there, it is just training aid. Body level movement of angling and moving is beginning stage of learning, how to get past that is the mystery.[/QUOTE]
Ah the mystery … I shall keep searching.
When did taiji become the WC straw man?
I have to wonder what axe Hendrik has to grind with taiji. Like maybe an IMA guy beat him up, or something.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211050]You’re talking sh&t dude, like your clips you don’t show fighting, you espouse intellectual servitude to your ‘cult’ approach… show me a fight and you moving to use the ‘idea’.
I claim bull****, prove it.[/QUOTE]
I have now most most absolutely perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thanks Kevin… I’ll frame it