[QUOTE=GlennR;1211158]I have now most most absolutely perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thanks Kevin… I’ll frame it[/QUOTE]
I knew I would catch someone with that… The shame ! No clips of me assaulting some poor misguided c&nt :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211050]You’re talking sh&t dude, like your clips you don’t show fighting, you espouse intellectual servitude to your ‘cult’ approach… show me a fight and you moving to use the ‘idea’.
I claim bull****, prove it.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black? Oh, I see someone above already noticed this before me.
I claim bull****, prove it.
Most people would say this about you.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211141]Ah the mystery … I shall keep searching.[/QUOTE]
Ya, life’s a journey. Good Luck
Wing Chun has more than one way of generating power.
To think that Wing Chun has only ONE way of generating power, and the method is unique is laughable. Unless all WCers are deformed we will share common biomechanics, physiology and psychology. And methods.
True, each martial art has its own ways to cultivate power, and places different emphasis on different strategies; but in the end we all have four limbs and a head. There are only very limited ways to be biologically effective and efficient.
With an open mind, the more you look into Arts such as Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi, Baji, Hung Jia, Tanglang, White Crane, Shaolin etc. etc. etc., the more you see the similarities, not the differences. The boundaries between the Arts become grey.
To suggest “only my method is right, and anyone doing it differently is not Wing Chun” is a sign of ignorance and bigotry.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1211208]True, each martial art has its own ways to cultivate power, and places different emphasis on different strategies; but in the end we all have four limbs and a head. There are only very limited ways to be biologically effective and efficient.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree, gung (attribute) training for a given martial art or even an intepretation within a martial art family will only support the strategies favoured, nothing more nothing less.
That there will be some cross over between martial arts is a forgone conclusion.
Dave
Great statment.
“With an open mind, the more you look into Arts such as Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi, Baji, Hung Jia, Tanglang, White Crane, Shaolin etc. etc. etc., the more you see the similarities, not the differences. The boundaries between the Arts become grey.”
Many people in wing chun have closed minds when whing chun is a art of rebellion. I would bet money on lots of transfers of experience between taiji and wing chun in foshan and canton around the 1900s.
Siu Nim Tao is the seed so you can’t understand chum kiu without it. The forms and system is not fixed, its not like one day you don’t understand and the next you do, its a process and hopefully our understanding keeps developing otherwise why practice?
Also if you look at chum kiu you should find multiple ways of generating power.
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1211212]Absolutely agree, gung (attribute) training for a given martial art or even an intepretation within a martial art family will only support the strategies favoured, nothing more nothing less.
That there will be some cross over between martial arts is a forgone conclusion.
Dave[/QUOTE]
The above is a very general view. Which get people into seem understand but confuse state. As in pseudo zen talking of everything is zen but none understand the zen teaching.
However, if one Really develop an art , one will know yang taiji is not Chen taiji is not wu taiji, they are different and not the same, baji and Xing yi is not the same, …etc
Siu Lin tau practice of WCK is very specific . It doesnt do those taiji rotate hip…ect, it doesnt do the forward stance. Siu lin tau capture the centerline at every move, taiji set don’t do that way, baji, xingyi don’t do that way, yi chuan doesn’t do that way.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1211208]To think that Wing Chun has only ONE way of generating power, and the method is unique is laughable. Unless all WCers are deformed we will share common biomechanics, physiology and psychology. And methods.
True, each martial art has its own ways to cultivate power, and places different emphasis on different strategies; but in the end we all have four limbs and a head. There are only very limited ways to be biologically effective and efficient.
With an open mind, the more you look into Arts such as Tai Chi, Bagua, Xingyi, Baji, Hung Jia, Tanglang, White Crane, Shaolin etc. etc. etc., the more you see the similarities, not the differences. The boundaries between the Arts become grey.
To suggest “only my method is right, and anyone doing it differently is not Wing Chun” is a sign of ignorance and bigotry.[/QUOTE]
Since you claim to be a wcner, Are you open minded enough to practice siu Lin tau set and let the set speak for itself?
If not, what are you practice? Wing Chum or something else?
As for tai chi, bagua, Xing yi…ect those are different art, the following clip shows the different of Xing yi and WCK by evidence. Start 6.3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqwNGUq60I
So one needs to practice wing chun, know what wing Chun Is, before get into arts become grey theory. In fact when one says art become grey just mean one has never really know the art.
In the above clip, Xing yi doesn’t do capture center line as wing Chun, the momentum handling of WCK is a totally different deal with Xing yi. Seeing is believe. One video worth a gigabytes. There is no gray, the wcner in the Clip only goal and score many times is capture the center line. Xing yi don’t do that. One practice the siu Lin tau, ck, bj, woodern dummy, chisau for that capture of the center line. Not taiji, not Xing yi, not baji, not shao Lin, not bagua, not yee chuan. WCK theme is WCK theme. Center line capture, inner gate capture, straight to center line. Also WCK type of uniqueness certainly not taiji type of rotating hip .
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211129]1. Snake body is a common denominator of the red boat era WCK lineages. As one can see it exist in the snake crane WCK lineage, the yik kam lineage, the Ipman lineage as Hawkin recently present it to the public.
Both The siu Lin tau long set of yik kam and the siu nim tau, ck, and biu jee set develop the snake engine or snake body. Snake body or snake engine is the Kung part of WCK.
Both the long siu Lin tau set of yik kam and the three sets has five layers, the physical, mind, breathing , qi , and. Momentum, force change, center line capture layers.
We know today what is the very very likely reason of is spliting a long set type system to the three sets type system in 1850. And can pin point to two persons who were responsible to this WCK evolution and why.
The siu nim Tao of the three sets was kept in the evolution of reorganization to three sets system to cultivate the Kung. Namely, the snake body is one of the target of development. So, siu Lin Tau is the process of transform into the snake body crane limbs. Only after that, ck, bj for further development. And finally return to only siu Lin tau because all three sets merge into one when the movement become smaller and smaller.
The long set was evolve away due to the complex of the internal content and application . The three sets is a much better system to learn for application in short time, however with a trade off of risking totally losing the Kung and internal engine part. Evolve into only application without engine.
This theard is the evidence of many has losing the Kung or body of the art or engine. Thus, they think as they think.
I design the drill as the intermidiate step to aid one get transform while practicing the sets.
No one has to agree with me, the above is my reasons of why I do what.[/QUOTE]
This is about as wrong as it gets. Snake body never has, and never will, have anything to do with real WC.
Enjoy your WC mutation.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1211299]This is about as wrong as it gets. Snake body never has, and never will, have anything to do with real WC.
Enjoy your WC mutation.[/QUOTE]
if your WCK is not from Red boat era WCK lineages, then you are right. your WCK is not the Red boat WCK.
We dont know what is real WCK, but we have a track record of WCK from 1850 to today interm of lineages and art. those are facts and more and more evidence will surface in the future.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211076]Okaaaay lets move on, Ving tsun is dependent on angling and movement to work. Like the weapons we use, we too need to change positions and counter attack, etc… a basic pole set is static to learn the alignment of the pole before we start to move and angle to attacks and counter, etc…you cant stand still in a basic stance and expect to create dynamic force using momentum of the body in motion.Or learn to recover errors of the same or take advantage of others errors unless…you move around, like fighters do outside their living rooms.[/QUOTE]
SLT, second and third parts, create hip rotation, if ever so slightly, when done correctly. This is due to your center of gravity “attached” to the floor developed in the first part. The hand movements come from the ground, not vice versa. Chum kiu is an extension of this movement exaggerated. Going “straight” into an opponent with this “structure” instead of angling creates a ‘ball in the water’ dynamic. The ball spins when you try to push it under water unless you’re directly center on it. The only way to counter a good WC fighter that comes “straight” into you is to connect to their center of gravity. This is the point of SLT. The “little idea”, that is the foundation of everything else. All you’re doing when angling is reverse chasing. You’re ‘chasing’ the body in response to the arms. That’s still chasing. Using Chum kiu instead as a response system, like the ball in the water, will completely change the result. WC is incredibly simple in concept, yet extremely difficult to master. But I’d rather pursue the actual ‘truth’ of the system and struggle for years in “fights” as I try to perfect it, than take a shortcut and convulute it for the short term of impressing my friends.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211243]The above is a very general view. Which get people into seem understand but confuse state. As in pseudo zen talking of everything is zen but none understand the zen teaching.
However, if one Really develop an art , one will know yang taiji is not Chen taiji is not wu taiji, they are different and not the same, baji and Xing yi is not the same, …etc
Siu Lin tau practice of WCK is very specific . It doesnt do those taiji rotate hip…ect, it doesnt do the forward stance. Siu lin tau capture the centerline at every move, taiji set don’t do that way, baji, xingyi don’t do that way, yi chuan doesn’t do that way.[/QUOTE]
No, my statement is quite specific - I’m merely saying that the gung fa of any martial art or stream within a martial art family will support its strategy for application.
To use your Tai Ji analogy - Chen is of course different from Yang, Wu, etc as it focuses on na (seizing, joint-locking) more than the others and therefore will have a different “body of the art”.
Form after all should follow function.
Where martial arts will be similar is where their strategies intersect, much like the concurrent evolution of the axe or wheel in different human populations around the world.
Dave
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1211347]No, my statement is quite specific - I’m merely saying that the gung fa of any martial art or stream within a martial art family will support its strategy for application.
To use your Tai Ji analogy - Chen is of course different from Yang, Wu, etc as it focuses on na (seizing, joint-locking) more than the others and therefore will have a different “body of the art”.
Form after all should follow function.
Where martial arts will be similar is where their strategies intersect, much like the concurrent evolution of the axe or wheel in different human populations around the world.
Dave[/QUOTE]
Great!
Imho,
Chen, Yang , Wu way of handling jin also different due to different type of engine development .
WCK core in using center guarding center or center line capture momentum, due to this unique type of core, it has both a different body of the art and different application strategy compare with all the taiji lineage’s. Thus, the way of using Jin is not the same.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1211244]Since you claim to be a wcner, Are you open minded enough to practice siu Lin tau set and let the set speak for itself?
If not, what are you practice? Wing Chum or something else?[/QUOTE]
Sorry Hendrik, I wasn’t talking to you. I was responding to Kev’s thread. Did I accidentally offend you by making sense?
Thank you for paying attention to my posts.
[QUOTE=WC1277;1211320]SLT, second and third parts, create hip rotation, if ever so slightly, when done correctly. This is due to your center of gravity “attached” to the floor developed in the first part. The hand movements come from the ground, not vice versa. Chum kiu is an extension of this movement exaggerated. Going “straight” into an opponent with this “structure” instead of angling creates a ‘ball in the water’ dynamic. The ball spins when you try to push it under water unless you’re directly center on it. The only way to counter a good WC fighter that comes “straight” into you is to connect to their center of gravity. This is the point of SLT. The “little idea”, that is the foundation of everything else. All you’re doing when angling is reverse chasing. You’re ‘chasing’ the body in response to the arms. That’s still chasing. Using Chum kiu instead as a response system, like the ball in the water, will completely change the result. WC is incredibly simple in concept, yet extremely difficult to master. But I’d rather pursue the actual ‘truth’ of the system and struggle for years in “fights” as I try to perfect it, than take a shortcut and convulute it for the short term of impressing my friends.[/QUOTE]
Bollocks…
[QUOTE=k gledhill;1211364]Bollocks…[/QUOTE]
You felt the concept in action years ago being escorted outside. I don’t know why you can’t believe this or think it’s more complex than this in application.
In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.
At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it’s good Wing Chun.
TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like. 
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1211374]In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.
At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it’s good Wing Chun.
TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like. :D[/QUOTE]
Nice analogy John.
Seems some folks just think its their way or the highway 
[QUOTE=WC1277;1211372]You felt the concept in action years ago being escorted outside. I don’t know why you can’t believe this or think it’s more complex than this in application.[/QUOTE]
Your confusing SLT alone, and slt in motion aka chum kil added to make it function with dynamics, ballistics…lets not get into story telling again.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1211374]In my opinion, both Kev and WC1277 are correct.
At the end of the day, different methods suit different people. As long as it works, it’s good Wing Chun.
TCMA is often like a Chinese feast. Instead of having to eat what when and how much the chef serves in Western cuisine; as Chinese we just pick what we like on the table in any order we like and as much as we like. :D[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GlennR;1211387]Nice analogy John.
Seems some folks just think its their way or the highway ;)[/QUOTE]
Ving Tsun is a definable skill. Making it into a subjective buffet/smorgasborg approach leaves the uninformed with a mix and match approach. Turning abstract concepts into confused applications. Perpetuating this idea simply allows any guy to pick up a book or video and assume he can make his vt what he wants, as long as he has abstract shapes in pictures to define him or he can con his students.