Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
The other day, my student took me down and was going to twist my arm off. I reached over and stuck my thumb in his eye.
If you were able to reach his eye whilst he was trying to “twist your arm off”, you are teaching your students shitty arm-breaks.
'Nuff said.
in a Hank Hill voice
Eyup…
Ryu
The mention seems to be, with great Power comes great Responsibility.
The Shaolin monks in persuit of Order through the thinking called Buddhism ended-up descent fighters (If you have heard of Shao-lin, since they had military opposition and started in the fifth century or so, then that indicates surviving sixteen centuries. And they lived under what some of you might consider to be Street conditions–robbers, killers around…dangerous to go to the store…except for pistols and many other firearms, U.S. of A.'s Wild West-like).
Fighting was not their Focus. Yet, it’s their Martial arts that is venerated or~ revered or~ highly sought…
As some of you might not see it, as The Way; perhaps you should not necessarily down it, as not A Way.
With great Power comes great Responibility.
Perhaps, with great Responsibility one feels empowered~.
Spirituality might be a structure in which one perceives Accountability and Reason~.
Perhaps some-such some might say whatever whatever, very whatever
Much of what I have to say on this subject was already stated by others, but I’ll put in my $0.02 anyway.
Those of you that know me, know that I have about 25 years of martial arts training. The last half of that time was spent practicing kung fu. I spent several years teaching hand-to-hand combat for special operations military and law enforcement personnel, and have had considerable “real world” experience applying MA training. OK, enough infomercial.
So, that’s where I’m coming from. Several people have pointed out that the issue raised is not one of style, but one of intent. Here is what I have found. Understand that these are broad generalizations, but they do effectively influence the state of CMA.
People that are serious about training for competition (in the ring), or “fighting”, tend to gravitate toward styles outside of the kung fu umbrella. This is appropriate. As I’ve mentioned several times, if someone wants to get good in the ring quickly, he should not study kung fu. Most kung fu takes a longer time to become proficient at than most other styles.
We (the CMA community) tend to get people that are looking for something more. So, training methods and environments tends to deemphasize training for the ring and other “benchmarks” for combat efficacy.
Unfortunately, most KF instructors also deemphasize combat efficacy altogether. This is not because KF is not effective, but because the instructors tend to lack any practical experience in this realm. Again, this is because those people are KF instructors, have been practicing KF for a while, and those people that have practiced KF for 10+ years, tend to be non-competitive or non-combative types.
So, take me for example. I could not even begin to teach a student how to train effectively for the ring, because I don’t know anything about how competitions work. Why not? Because I have less than no interest in that pursuit. I can, however, train a student to be very effective in the real world. Contrary to what some would have us believe, the ring and the real world are very different.
That doesn’t mean that you can’t be effective in both, it just means that efficacy in one does not guarantee efficacy in the other.
So, what I find is that some of my students, after a fairly short time, are very capable of defending themselves with ferocity. Others, after much more training, will never be. The difference?
Those that can defend themselves, train with such a purpose. They don’t just show up and go through the motions. It is all about mental training. I can teach a student exactly what to do physically, but if he/she doesn’t mentally prepare for the actuality, he/she will forget everything during an actual attack.
This is the bottom line. MMA and BJJ types do well because they are mentally and physically prepared to do well in that sort of contest. KF types, although often technically superior, frequently lack the mental preparation. When you see a KF practitioner being beaten by a BJJ (or whatever) practitioner, do you see the KF practitioner doing “good” kung fu, but still being beaten? No, they panic, freeze, and fall apart. Is this physical or technical in nature? No, of course not. This is an issue of mental preparedness.
I have sparred with, and/or had “real” confrontations with, practitioners of just about every style in mainstream existence. I’ve won some, and I’ve lost some, but in the last 10 years anyway, I haven’t lost because of inferior technique. I have lost because I failed in some way to prepare for the contest in question.
Never point to style to explain combat or competition performance - good or bad. Success or failure is dependent solely on the individual.
-Brent
KF types, although often technically superior, frequently lack the mental preparation.
When you see a KF practitioner being beaten by a BJJ (or whatever) practitioner, do you see the KF practitioner doing “good” kung fu, but still being beaten? No, they panic, freeze, and fall apart.
Is this physical or technical in nature? No, of course not. This is an issue of mental preparedness.
So training for the ring, or at least training like you’re going into the ring (I think David Ross has some people that do this) is how you should train. Forgive me Brent, but what good is technical superiorty if a person can’t use it? How do you train your folks to be mentally prepared?
KF types, although often technically superior, frequently lack the mental preparation.
You blew it. You now have zero credibility with me. Technically superior, my ass. Go roll with any decent purple who’s done some MMA. Your intent and mental preparation won’t save you.
I’m not “grappling is the best here.” It’s just that your comment is so stereotypically CMA elitist, I can’t take anything you say seriously.
Typical. Yeah, yeah, grappling is the best, we hear you.
That’s it Braden! I’ve had enough! I challenge you to a death by chicken choke match… er.. um… never mind.
Ha. You just want to steal my technically superior chinese chicken choking technique. Nice try!
It is common knowledge that the CMA’s do not know how to properly execute chicken chokes once on the ground. Brazilians figured out how to do it much better.
You sound like you want respectable chicken choking to descend into the world of common wrestling.
I see you claim to be familiar with the internal chicken choke.
There is a whole world of stand-up chicken choking involving sensitivity and flow. We don’t HAVE to go to the ground.
The chinese have over a billion people, they don’t have TIME to choke the chicken.
Man O’ mighty!! I don’t know what a “kung fu” type is, I only know me and my schools “type”(not whimps). But I do know that gross generalizations are in full force and gaining speed in this thread. :rolleyes:
Generalizations made by both sides of the fence. 
Tip: I would be very carefull when to use the word “elitists” on this board. 
Braden, Ap told me MPs weakness. MP can only choke a gi wearing chicken. All you have to do is keep your chicken naked and he can’t to anything to it. Heck, you could probably even wave your naked chicken right in front of him and still be safe.
Choke the chicken? Hah! I know lots of other, superior styles:
Backstroke Roulette
Bash the bishop
Beat the Dummy
Beat the Stick
Bleed the Weed
Bop the Baloney
Box the Jesuit
Buff the Banana
Buff the Vampire Slayer
Burp the Worm
Butter the Corn
Choke the Sheriff and Wait for the Posse to Come
Clean Your Rifle
Crown the King
Cuff the Carrot
Fist Your Monster
Five Against One
Flog the Dog
Flute Solo
Fondle the Fig
Gallop the Antelope
Give It a Tug
Grease the Pipe
Hack the Hog
Jackhammer
Jazz Yourself
Kicking the Poodle
Lope the Mule
Make the Bald Man Puke
Manipulate the Mango
Manual Override
Mary Palmer
Mary Palm and the five adventures
Milk the Lizard
Moulding the candle
Mount a Corporal and Four
Nerk Your Throbber
Nickel Shuffle
Oil the Glove
One-Man Show
Pack Your Palm
Paddle the Pickle
Pam and her 5 friends
Pocket Pinball
Polish the Rocket
Pull the Pope
Pump the Python
Ram the Ham
Ride the Great White Knuckler
Rope the Pony
Scaling the garfish
Shag
Shaking Hands With the Unemployed
Slam the hammer
Slapping the Clown
Sling the Jelly
Snap the Monkey
Spank the Frank
Squeeze the Lemon
Stroke the Dog
The Five-Knuckle Shuffle
Thump the Pump
Varnish the Flagpole
Wax the Dolphin
Wrestle the Eel
Yang Your Wang.
The only thing I find disturbing here is that you had time to alphabetize that list.
Sounds like a list of Tai Chi moves.
LOL rogue! 
Originally posted by rogue
So training for the ring, or at least training like you’re going into the ring (I think David Ross has some people that do this) is how you should train. Forgive me Brent, but what good is technical superiorty if a person can’t use it? How do you train your folks to be mentally prepared?
I’m not sure if you are challenging my post, or agreeing with it. My point is exactly in response to your question. I am saying that technical skills do no good if you are not mentally prepared to use them. Was I not clear on that?
I use a number of techniques with my students. For example, early on we do blocking drills with increasing levels of unpredictability - mostly to get students used to arms and legs flying at them without panicking.
We also use visualization techniques. Students visualize self-defense scenarios, and plan their response to them. The objective is not preconceive a defense strategy, but to preconceive an immediacy and intensity in the response appropriate to the attack. Most self-defense failures result from a failure to response swiftly and with resolve. (This incidentally is one thing that BJJ/MMA/etc practitioners have for them - resolve is built into the style.)
Also, we run realistic self-defense scenarios - street clothes, poor lighting, multiple attackers, weapons, etc. These are done with the most realism possible without sacrificing safety. It is amazing what it does to a student psychologically to take them out of the studio at night in unfamiliar surroundings.
Perhaps just as importantly as all of these, we talk about self-defense all the time. I use real stories from either my own experience, or others known to me. We do a fair amount of “what if” discussions.
Ultimately, I cannot actually prepare a student mentally. He/she must do this himself/herself. I provide opportunities and guidance, and give them the technical skills to back it up, but really it comes down to an individual’s resolve.
-Brent
Originally posted by Merryprankster
[B]
You blew it. You now have zero credibility with me. Technically superior, my ass. Go roll with any decent purple who’s done some MMA. Your intent and mental preparation won’t save you.
I’m not “grappling is the best here.” It’s just that your comment is so stereotypically CMA elitist, I can’t take anything you say seriously. [/B]
You have no idea how much that upsets me. I came onto the forum with sole objective to impress you. I’m not sure what to do with myself now.
How easily persuaded are you, that one phrase makes up your whole mind about a person? Oh well, here we go anyway…
If you go back and read the post, you will note that I prefaced my comments with an acknowledgement that the following statements were generalizations.
I do stand by the statement. Kung fu practitioners are often technically superior. Are they always superior? Of course not. However, often they are faster, more versatile, have a broader range of techniques, superior balance, etc. The opposite is often true just as well.
I am simply saying that although this is often the case, it is also frequently accompanied by a lack of mental preparedness.
I’m not sure where you get off calling me a CMA elitist. If you read the post, you will find that what I am actually doing is pointing out one of the major flaws in the CMA community (in general), and one way that BJJ/MMA/etc practitioners are generally superior.
I would not, for example, say that in cases where the BJJ/MMA/etc practitioner possesses technical superiority, he/she frequently lacks the mental preparedness to use it. On the contrary. Practitioners of these styles tend to have a mindset that is more prepared to take martial action (in the ring or wherever). Whether this results from training in the style, or the style just attracts this mindset, or both, is immaterial to my point.
My point is simply that we should not assume that solely because practioner A defeats practitioner B, that there is anything inherently wrong with B’s style. Even if 1000 practitioners of style A defeat 1000 practitioners of style B, we still cannot make that leap of logic.
90% of success or failure comes down to physical and mental readiness. Technique has much less to do with it than all these “my-stylists” would have us believe.
I can teach someone one stance, one block, and one punch. If he/she prepares sufficiently both physically and mentally, he/she will be able to defeat anyone from style X that lacks his/her state of readiness.
To further underscore this point. I know a few people with no formal training whatsoever, who in a “real world” fight, could beat any BJJ/MMA/etc hero you can name. They can do this because they have resolve, fortitude, and a combative spirit. This is the type that can be shot, stabbed, and have a cracked skull and ribs - and still keep attacking. I’m not saying that I would have them to dinner necessarily, but they are excellent fighters - not because of technical/style superiority, but because they are mentally prepared for combat.
Take a look at any skilled and accomplished BJJ/MMA/etc fighter. What are they like mentally? Pretty soft-spoken, easy-going, and non-confrontational right? No, of course not. These people would be decent (or better) fighters without style X. Sure, style X makes them better fighters by giving them a technical edge, but it does not make them.
Incidentally, with regards to …
Go roll with any decent purple who’s done some MMA. Your intent and mental preparation won’t save you.
Been there, done that, and you are exactly wrong. It is my intent and mental preparation precisely that has saved me repeatedly in both real life, and in stupid contests.
If you are using the term “roll” here literally, then you are correct. If I am taken down by a BJJ/MMA/etc type, I do very poorly. I am 5’9", weigh only 145 pounds, and have weak ground technique. I am severely disadvantaged on the ground if my attacker is there ahold of me. However, I quite honestly am rarely taken to the ground.
The way I practice MA, if I find myself on the ground, it is probably because I failed to respond quickly enough to the attack. The failure - lack of mental preparedness.
-Brent