If anyone here on the KUNGFU magazine forum actually pactice kungfu, chinese TMA, that sort of thing? Or has this place been taken over by “Reality fighting”- grappling-traditional sucks - types?
Well, I practice SD, so I think that counts. 
You can’t have a decent KF conversation without some grappling meat-head jacking the thread to boast about the inadequacies of CMA, so the real KF people just talk about movies and beer. The more movies you talk about, the better your kung fu. Currently, CSN is the Grandmaster.
Haven’t all those wins in UFC, K-1 and Pride by TCMA put to rest that old argument yet?
And SS doesn’t count because that isn’t real Kung Fu.
And SS doesn’t count because that isn’t real Kung Fu.
aww shucks… i guess i don’t than… 'cuz rouge said so…
Yes.
Suntzu, When you can chi blast a chicken with those gloves on then you’ll be doing kung fu, otherwise you’re just regressing to kickboxing.
at the risk of starting an argument I don’t really view sanshou or sanda as traditional, although that certainly doesn’t take away from their viability as fighting arts.
I just think it’s funny how the internet reflects trends and apparently is not reflecting reality. I know what goes on in the reality fighting venues, KFC, Pride, all that but for the “average fighter” I have come across all sorts on both sides of the fence. I’ve gotten kind of sick of the whole sport vs. reality thing, comparing the fighters in UFC or National Sanshou competitions to the average martial artist is ridiculous, like saying Softball isn’t viable as a sport because most soft ball players can’t play as well as professional baseball players.
It turns out I’ve met quite a few good martial artist in the last several months, fought a few, worked out with a few. I have found any relationship to “good fighter” except for a desire to train and a realistic approach. One of the grapplers who is teaching me nigh untouchable on the average. He competes nationally so he trains much harder then anyone else. I train with a guy who studies Shaolin longfist and is probably one of the better fighters I have met. All of them have of course done some digging into all aspects of fighting. I 've come to the conclusion that for the average guy, studying any sort of martial arts, as long as the teacher is knowledgeable and that student applies themselves, can hold their own on the street.
but shouldn’t any martial art, sport or traditional, have reality at it’s core?
The reality is most real 1 on 1 fights end in about 10 seconds, after one guy hits the other square in the head.
The other reality is that the best fighters you will encounter on the street never trained in anything.
R5,
That’s very sensible. Most guys who do “reality fighting” or TCMA are doing it as a passing hobby, and are usually average at best. They rarely are able to put it all together, and will specialize in one format, like groundfighting. Most will quit after obtaining a certain goal. The venue doesn’t eradicate human nature.
but shouldn’t any martial art, sport or traditional, have reality at it’s core?
What does that mean? Are you insinuating Karate and TKD don’t have reality at it’s core?
Suntzu, When you can chi blast a chicken with those gloves on then you’ll be doing kung fu, otherwise you’re just regressing to kickboxing.
welkmnsnlm,s… d@mn gloves… like i was trying to say…u may be taking some of these ‘conversations’ personal… I guess ‘meat-heads’ aren’t allowed in your secret society discussions?.. if YOUR training methods work for YOU… the the ‘inadequacies’ that are pointed out shouldn’t rub you the wrong way… I would guess… if it works for you… than explain the hows and whys or sit back and watch the flames… people have different goals in their training… some want to beat the bully up like as soon as possible… some want to make the hundreds traveling around and entertaining crowds in dirty rings and cages throughout… some want to be able to sit in horse stance for 72 hours at a time… some need to take down a crackhead without getting clobbered by the MD 20/20 bottle he’s carring… so the training methods that work for you or me wont work for someone else… some people don’t even know other training methods are out there… and some believe that THIS method will work for them when in reality it WONT…
Masterkiller, I completely disagree on both points. Most fights seem to drag out for quite some time, much longer then 10 seconds and often after a few smacks to the head. As for “best” fighters on the street, successful street fighters who have no official training might be more numerous then trained fighters but I cannot agree that they are better then a good majority of trained persons.
Rogue, absolutely but I said that in my post already.
I have found any relationship to “good fighter” except for a desire to train and a realistic approach
what I’ve discovered on my own is that almost every style of fighting translates to fighting in the real world in some way or another. Some may take a longer path, and in my opinion, that’s ok as long as you aren’t going to rush out and start picking fights at bars but as long as you are realistic, and reasonable I don’t think it really matters. The fact is most people do not compete and I think it’s unreasonable to believe that those arts or sports are more inclined to be more proficient at fighting then anyone else. Those who are studying those arts are trainnig much harder then about 95% of the martial artists out there.
Sadly some arts have fallen to a sort of mysticism that convinces their practitioners that with little or no training beyond their art will suffice, and what I mean by that is that some understanding of all ranges of combat, and some physical training just to maintain a reasonable level of health.
Most fights seem to drag out for quite some time, much longer then 10 seconds and often after a few smacks to the head.
Outside the ring that depends upon how much the parties want to take each other out.
people have different goals in their training… some want to beat the bully up like as soon as possible… some want to make the hundreds traveling around and entertaining crowds in dirty rings and cages throughout… some want to be able to sit in horse stance for 72 hours at a time… some need to take down a crackhead without getting clobbered by the MD 20/20 bottle he’s carring… so the training methods that work for you or me wont work for someone else
Suntzu, outside of “some want to be able to sit in horse stance for 72 hours at a time” don’t the other goals have more in common than differences? And if so won’t most training methods transfer from one to the other?
Most fights seem to drag out for quite some time, much longer then 10 seconds and often after a few smacks to the head.
Just about every real fight I’ve ever seen/been involved with was very short and quick. One person establiches domincance quickly and it’s over. The winner might keep pounding the other guy, but I’ve seen very few fights where the fighters exhcanged more than 2 blows a piece. Of course, that’s just my experiece.
As for “best” fighters on the street, successful street fighters who have no official training might be more numerous then trained fighters but I cannot agree that they are better then a good majority of trained persons.
They aren’t better. But the majority of the people out there causing/getting into fights aren’t the type of people who train 15 hours a week to fight. That doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous, though, and a lot of people who DO train underestimate natural ability and mind set sometimes. The best fighter I’ve ever seen in real life was a small, stocky half-Korean/half-Black guy who literally demolished people all the time because he got off on it and thought he had something to prove. He never spent 1 minute in a boxing/kung fu/BJJ/Judo studio.
And if so won’t most training methods transfer from one to the other?
depends on the school and the method… i’ve been to schools where you do the same 2 or 3 movements for what seems like forever… in judo for instance… from day one that you walk in the door you are throwing and being thrown… if little Billy is being bullied it would make no sense for him to practice horse stance punching for 2 months and not hit or get hit… he’s better off getting his older brother/cousin or whatever to just beat some tuffness into him… now if little Billy wants a blackbelt than go ‘tradtional’…but if Billy’s mom took him the TKD world or whereever that might not be the best place for him to learn to tool his bully… all tho that might be a good place for all the other ‘stuff’ like discipline, social and all of the other stuff from the commercials…
if some dude wants to compete… why would he go to someplace that doesn’t produce competitors… doesn’t train with ring endurance in mind and doesn’t hit…
the thirty-five year old that need to get away from his nagging wife… he has a bad knee… is the Lion’s den the best place for him to train?.. is he really worried about Bad Bad Leroy Brown?..
"Outside the ring that depends upon how much the parties want to take each other out. "
That’s one factor, the other is lack of skill, and still another is that the body is more durable then we sometimes seem to remember or realize.
If anyone here on the KUNGFU magazine forum actually pactice kungfu, chinese TMA, tha
yes.
FTR, I go to my meathead meeting right after my secret society meeting…but it’s hell keeping the hand signs straight.
(edited for poor typing)
Masterkiller - thanks for adding that it is your experience. Mine is much different, most fights in my experience have been longer struggles but not all.
As for street fighters vs martial artist, I’m not saying that you don’t have good street fighters who have no official training, I’m essentially not discounting natural ability and agressiveness, I just don’t agree that most good street fighters are just naturally ferocious but with no skill.