what do you guys think of kung fu?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

um… im expecting this to turn in to a bit of a troll fest but was just wondering…

coming from the read about the 2 guys who went in to a MMA competition doing kung fu and got crushed - what do you guys on this forum think about kung fu in general?

Have any of you sparred against people who train in good kung fu? If so what did you think of it? Do any of you guys train kung fu as well as some other skills (wrestling etc.)? How do you find it?

those who train in kung fu - what do u think the current state of CMA is in general? How cna it be improved? What do you think of the western/competitive MA skills etc.?

was gonna make it a poll but 1. cant think of what the options could be and 2. no one ever votes anyway :smiley:

dawood

2

I did kung fu for 5 years,
This includes Northern Long Fist combined with 5 Animals,
In this time I also did 2 years of Wing Chun at a different school.

Both schools are highly reputable,
The Wing Chun school especially,Sifu Steven Zippliers won the heavy weight full contact kung fu comps (not sure what the competition is called) in I think 1991 or 1992.

I enjoyed my kung fu immensely,I was always looking for new things though,I heard about an instructor that teaches JKD/Boxing and phoned him up for my free private lesson,after inquiring how long I had trained for we sparred,
I got the snot beaten out of me,it was one major wake up call to me,how can it be that after 5 years of training I didn’t even put up a good fight.I was one of the best at my level at both kung fu schools.

I joined up and started training at both schools.
It got even worse when I was introduced to my first BJJ class,
I got tapped like a type writer by the smallest guys in the class,none of my Chin Na moves worked while I was on the ground,it was depressing.

After 6 months of training at both I had to choose,I found that I loved grappling more than anything else and so I decided to change to MMA.

I think I was more combat effective after one year with the boxing/BJJ combo than all 5 years in kung fu.
Now 5 years later and many challenge matches I have never lost to a traditional style,especially when I was alloud to take it to the ground.

I will admit,kung fu is more than just fighting, it can be a spiritual lifestyle,but honestly all I really wanted to do was learn how to fight.
I think that the Boxing/BJJ is leagues ahead in that aspect.

This is really no attempt to Troll,this is simply what happened in my life personally.

Four of my best friends still do kung fu and are now Si Suks.

3

KungFu ROX :cool:

4

In my opinion there is no line drawn between kungfu and other fighting arts. It all depends on the way a practitioner trains; whether or not it is for the sake of self-defence or the ring. If you want to be effective in the ring, well then baby you better focus on all aspects concerning the ring. You’ll be crushed if you enter the ring unprepared. If you want to look good in demonstrations, train hard in forms. The only way to become efficient is to train hard.

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kung fu

Hey I train in wing chun kung fu (just started) and i think it is great. Its a realy cool martial art form and the techniques are really useful. After a whil of doing it you get to know the most appropriat technique for any situation. Anyway I have to go to a lesson now, I will post more later.

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Hi all,

KnightSabre, I feel your pain with the “JKD wakeup call” thing. I’ve been training in wing chun for about four years now, but my teacher had trained in JKD for quite a while too.

I’m more of a math and physics person and so wing chun really appealed to me and I always dissect a martial arts technique based on it’s effectiveness from a scientific standpoint. I will spare you the gory details, but in THEORY I find wing chun to be a very effective martial art. However, you NEED a teacher who has not been lulled into complacency!

I learned wing chun basics, then “JKD mentality”, and now we just practice wing chun but I can (I think) look at it in a more realistic way. I guess the bottom line is that we have to remember that we can do anything another person can do, and we shouldn’t become “slaves to a martial art”. I had mentioned “JKD mentality” but in truth that existed long before Bruce Lee was even born.

Kung fu works very well, but more than the physical techniques, each art incorporates different mental techniques that (I feel) truly define the art. For example, I once saw a NHB match between a “wing chun guy” and a mixed martial artist. The wing chun guy waited for the MMA guy to come to him, then he performed a block, a punch, AND a kick at the same time. After seeing that, I was glad to watch him get beaten into mush! That’s just one example of a martial artist learning mental techniques that don’t match his art.

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I don’t. It’s all fighting. Some folks would like to make what they do special, but it’s not.

The problem typically stems from training methods and training attitudes, not necessarily from the arts themselves.

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those who train in kung fu - what do u think the current state of CMA is in general? How cna it be improved? What do you think of the western/competitive MA skills etc.?

Kung Fu is in a state of improvement. Inactivity led to atrophy in MA in general, and we have to thank MMA and especially the Gracies for the wake up call.

In general, Kung Fu is weak right now. That’s because it’s kind’ve scitzophrenic. People aren’t quite sure what they’re supposed to be getting out of it, and, to make matters worse, the teachers aren’t quite sure what they’re supposed to be teachin’.

Knightsabre found that he got more out of a school that was really focused in it’s intentions. Kung Fu could be that way, but that would require a fundamental shift in the teaching styles of most schools (less BS and tradition and more fight training)
and I think that’s starting to happen. But, rather than being the established leader that kung fu thought it was, it’s in catch up mode. None of this is new info. This is why JKD was created in the first place. Before that, Musashi talked about inefficiencies in traditional arts. And I’m sure that all of the styles started because of the same observation being made time and time again as it will continue in the future.

9

In my view, real kungfu is too deadly for ringfighting. The guys at this event were clearly just frauds who had seen too many Bruce Lee movies. Bruce Lee himself wasn’t a real kungfu master, because he adulterated his traditional training with weak, unneccesary methods such as boxing, weight training, and so on. Why, he didn’t even get his complete system!

Furthermore, none of the real masters of kung fu would ever be interested in ringfighting, because they are too peaceful and enlightened for that. Few people know of these masters, because they do not seek worldly glory in the form of wealth or magazine covers. If a wrestler tried to shoot in for a double leg takedown on one of these men or women, they would find their force redirected back on themselves, and instantly knocked out by a blindingly fast blow from what would seem like an impossible direction. Alternatively, the master might simply prove so elusive that the wrestler would continually find himself grappling with empty air as the master mysteriously appeared behind him and out of reach. It’s entirely possible that such a master might simply KO the grappler with kong jing from the opposite corner before the grappler ever got close, by projecting his qi!

Ummm…I think that about covers it. Can we close the thread down now?

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I train kung fu, I sparr against other people who train kung fu, I havent experienced any problems.

I dont understand why anyone would be concerned about the ‘state of cma’?

What the hell. If your kung fu is fine why would you want to improve others kung fu?

:confused:

11

Kung Fu sucks…

David Carradine wasn’t even chinese, and what the hell was it with the slow mo fights?

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I cant understand how events like UFC, King of the cage, blah blah blah are measuring rods for the effectiveness of ‘kung fu’… good ‘kung fu’ is the result of GOOD training… if u do forms 3 days a week and maybe a few 2-man drills, some touch sparring…you may not have what it takes to get in the ring, cage or out the bar in one complete recognizable piece… its not kung fu that sucks its the pummeled individuals kung fu that sucked… train harder… or just accept being a rec player… and IMO as far as the spiritual aspects… go to church… sit under a water fall or something:rolleyes:

13

I like Kungfu and I think it’s as effective as any other art out there, however it seems that as of late there are alot of KF guys out there fooling themselves into thinking they are training properly to take on an attacker. Too much spiritual mumbo jumbo and instructors out there who really when it comes down to it don’t have a clue as to what they are doing.
Wing Chun is know pretty well for it’s “combat effectiveness” however most of the people who practice it, won’t survive contact in the streets.

14

I’ve sparred 3 WC fellows and a small bunch of Yang Tai Chi players. Most of the WC suffered from a lack of free form sparring. When things fit their drills they were quite good, but if things moved into unknown territory they were lost. They had problems controlling the distance with the kickboxers and we all had problems with the ****ed judoka.

Of the tai chi players few knew how to use their TCC free form, most had never sparred. But those that had were good and had sparred were getting me into a lock or a takedown if I got in close. One had never sparred but did some pretty aggressive push hands, I definatly had to keep to the outside of him.

I think that San Shou will help the CMA a great deal. It’ll modernize CMA training and give an unbiased forum for CMA to fight. I’d think with the striking and takedown skills those guys are developing they’d be a natural for MMA just by adding some up to date ground fighting.

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An antiquated, poorly trained unrealistic conglomerate of “tricks” that lack the sensibility to adapt and improve because they are romantics who enjoy the fantasy that they are training as their ancestors did (false.)

Kung fu as a fighting style died at the Boxer Rebellion. Actually it was dead much earlier, but the massive killing just drove the point home!

16

Now seriously…

Most Kung Fu styles are excellent. The problem nowadays is that most people don’t want to train hard, the way it is supposed to be. They find more useful to learn about past masters, and chi tales.

I was surprised the first time I saw a bunch of Muay Thai guys training…damn, they were kicking, and kneeing and elbowing, until they couldn’t go on. It was like a military camp. I bet the pads suffer more than they do. You don’t see that in 95% of the Kung Fu schools out there.

MMA guys are excellent fighters, because they train their asses off, practice what they preach, and test their skills everytime. Real MMA fighters are not afraid to admit their own weaknesses and work to improve. Only trolls and fanatics think that the style is superior, not the training.

Most MA traditionalists don’t want to deal with the consequences of practicing fighting or real attacks. They only love forms to show off and get girls. That’s why Royce (Amen!!) surprised the whole bunch of opponents by getting into the fight once the bell rang. He had the mindset of a real fighter. So much for being hopping around and throwing silly kicks.

If you practice Kung Fu, my advice is to train like hell, test it everytime, and you’ll have a deadly style. Isn’t that what you wanted in first place?

If you want to be spiritual, practice yoga.

17

I train and teach kung fu but have to agree with Merryprankster
and MightyB on most counts. Right now the mma arenas are
the closest to the real thing as you can get.

It’s the way you train and use what you know.

You have to train realistically and until you either puke, bleed
or pass out.

Then you have to apply what you know in real life, morally and
ethically.

I was a bouncer for 7 years and applied what I new fairly
succesfully. Not to say I didn’t screw up a couple of times but
that was me, not what I study. I’ve disarmed guys with knives,
tire irons, pool sticks and bottles and was later able to recall
what movements/techniques I used to do so and link it back
to specific training drills.

CSN, I hope you are mostly joking. I agree about Bruce Lee and
hold the opinion that Bruce Lee was probably ADD and couldn’t
handle the slow approach most CMA systems use and didn’t get
to more advanced training and theory.

As far as deadliness…I’m not sure what is more deadly than
being smashed to the ground and beaten senseless. Once you
are unconscious you don’t have much of a defense. The mma
guys are training to accept a certain amount of punishment on
the way to the clinch then take you down and hurt you. Simple,
fast and effective. CMA IS playing catchup to that sort of training.
CMA has the ability to teach it’s practitioners to take damage;
take the opponent down or out; and finish them if necessary.

I think CMA has to shake some of the mysticism and secrecy that
plagues it and get down to some training with what it has.

This is not to say that all CMA schools and teachers fall into this
category. But, if there were more CMA schools that trained to
fight and fight hard then we would see better represention in
fighting events from the CMA crowd.

all this is of course, just my humble opinion

Matt

18

he||… most anybody wont survive REAL contact in the streets… the GOOD FIGHTER™… kin to the GOOD GRAPPLER™… might survive the occassional bar fight or playground scuffle… but a crime committed by a criminal… that throws the rules away… gun, knife, pipe… cender block… car… talk about illusion… for the most part MA whether ‘mixed’ or ‘traditional’… is now relegated to recreation… its just how far u wanna push it… exercise? forms? ring? cage? bar?the need to follow a spiritual leader?

19

Most Kung Fu styles are excellent. The problem nowadays is that most people don’t want to train hard, the way it is supposed to be. They find more useful to learn about past masters, and chi tales. I was surprised the first time I saw a bunch of Muay Thai guys training…****, they were kicking, and kneeing and elbowing, until they couldn’t go on. It was like a military camp. I bet the pads suffer more than they do. You don’t see that in 95% of the Kung Fu schools out there
exactly…
They only love forms to show off and get girls.
:confused: It must be the PJ’s…:confused: :smiley:

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Originally posted by Suntzu
he||… most anybody wont survive REAL contact in the streets… the GOOD FIGHTER™… kin to the GOOD GRAPPLER™… might survive the occassional bar fight or playground scuffle… but a crime committed by a criminal… that throws the rules away… gun, knife, pipe… cender block… car… talk about illusion… for the most part MA whether ‘mixed’ or ‘traditional’… is now relegated to recreation… its just how far u wanna push it… exercise? forms? ring? cage? bar?the need to follow a spiritual leader?

nicely said.