For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
The kung fu VS MMA debate. that is a BIG worm can. have fun with this one.
Imo I think 1. somepeople feel they have nothing to prove. 2. some peoples skills really are not as good as they think. 3. others feel the few rules that are in mma will take away from their ability or bag of trick if thats what you wanna call it. Personaly I’ve never seen any kung fu used in UFC / Pride.
I’t seem like it’s gonna be a decent converstion. but… well you’ll see:D
Come on ironcu, the last thing we need is someone to post the same old thing over all the forums. It’d be much better if you just jumped into one of the many CMA vs. MMA flame wars. Don’t be such a nooB :rolleyes:
Personally, I don’t compete because I have no interest. If I did, I wouldn’t be at that level of fighting anyways. So as far as competing in the UFC or Pride, those guys are superior atheletes. They’re professional fighters. How many professional atheletes do you know?
As far as local MMA tournaments, there are wing chun guys doing them all over the place and some are winning.
We have a guy at our club who has just started fighting and he’s had about 3 or 4fights winning them all by knock out in the first round. He took gold in some comp. and then was invited to fight -I think it was in Bermuda- and knocked out 2 guys there.
He’s a local guy doing alot of training but nobody has heard of him.
One of my goals is to eventually train someone to go into the UFC or PRIDE and win!!! (It won’t be me - as I’m already 56 years old). But there’s more that needs to be said about this…
Firstly - wing chun is PRIMARILY a standup striking/kicking INFIGHTING system…and few wing chun people are willing to recognize that what this means is as follows: MORE LONG RANGE WEAPONRY IS NEEDED. (Which is why I’ve married some boxing moves and footwork to Traditional Wing Chun principles - as a means of getting to close range effectively - as well as by using some strategies and techniques to achive this end that already exist in TWC).
Secondly - fighting in the clinch with some Thai moves (knees and elbows) is important.
Thirdly - grappling in the clinch and on the ground is also very important (so I cross train in Catch as catch can wrestlng).
Four - training, cardio, strengthening, and conditioning has to be intense - including lots of bag/mitt/shield work.
Five - live hard contact sparring/rolling is a must on a regular basis - against quality opponents and sparring/rolling partners.
There are some people within the wing chun world who are doing these things - but not many, as far as I can tell.
[QUOTE=ironcu;732186]For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
Ironcu.[/QUOTE]
below are some examples of some ufc champs with traditional martial arts backgrounds. even though they all train mma i would think theirbackground would influance what they do …
There are many reasons why not. And not everyone who is into CMA end up having the same goal. They may initially start with the same goal but after a number of years of progress, they realize there is more to CMA than just fighting.
Part of the answer is the fact that when one reaches a certain level in any MA, they have nothing to prove to themselves nor to anyone and elect not to enter such events. One realizes that learning CMA is more than just proving that one is able to kick butt. There are qualities that CMA develops and or improves in individuals that are often overlooked such as character building, make oneself a better person, realizing that conflct can be resolved rather than fighting, that winning is not always the right answer.
Like Jet Li said in Fearless “The true battle is with one’s self”
I myself have no reason to enter competitions, and I guess I take after my teacher in that regard. He is probably the most dangerous person I have ever met, but he is also the nicest. He is always smiling, and will walk away rather than fight. After a certain point, you know what you are capable of, and don’t need to cross hands anymore, or avoid it to spare others injury.
I guess MMA events are a good proving ground for techniques, but I get lots of fighting in my club where we focus on the aspects of our style.
Edit- I do know of a high level taiji master that is assembling a group of students to train for the UFC. His goal is to have a taiji only fighter win in the UFC, and if you’ve seen this guy, you can believe it’s possible.
Traditional (“true”) fighters do compete in the UFC and MMA tournaments. Almost every good fighter has a solid background in a traditional, non-watered down art. They study techniques of other arts to round out what their training misses out on, and to cover personal weaknesses.
But soooooo many MMA guys miss out on that point. Guys like Lidell and everone else are labeled MMA, so they say…I’ll go learn MMA. But they’re buying their tacos from Chick-Fila, and their burgers from KFC.
If you want to fine-tune your striking, study a traditional striking art. If you want to fine-tune your grappling/throwing, go study a traditional grappling/throwing art. If you want a little bit of this, and a little bit of that (which doesn’t add up to much, when the sum is laid out on the table), go to your local MMA school and get bilked out of money by jacks-of-all trades.
You rely on your strengths, and some of the best MMA fighters are far better strikers than grapplers…and they almost always studied traditional arts…
Is it a coincidence?
Plenty of the Gracies were terrible strikers in their heyday…do you think they asked other terrible strikers (grapplers) how to strike in order to round out their repertoire?
For those of us not planning to join the UFC anytime soon, we don’t really have to deal with lots of grappling or groundfighting, so we don’t necessarily train them. Kind of like taking a gun with you on a visit to the Moon…do you really need it?
Maybe, if an alien happens to come along…but that’s a battle I’m fighting in the Kung Fu Forum…props to RD.
I hate to get sucked into this because it’s probably been up about a thousand times before, but here’s what I suggest:
There are probably a lot of reasons, but I think one of the bigger ones is that most of the MMA going on today puts CMA at a major disadvantage. Here’s why:
1 - They favor people with grappling practice. They do this in two ways. The first is they require gloves for everybody. Now don’t get me wrong, I think gloves are certainly a good idea, but if you are a striker it’s a lot harder to put somebody on the ground when you’re punching through a padded glove. Additionally they rule a bunch of strikes illegal: eye gouges, throat attacks, etc. Again I think these are necessary rules, but if your game is striking a big part of your strategy is to use these weak points. If you can’t then you’re being forced to have a disadvantage.
2 - They also put chinese (Chin Na) grappling at a disadvantage. You can’t do any manipulation of ‘small joints’, which is a major part of Chinese grappling.
Also, if you look back in the day you’ll see that many CMA did participate in MMA outside the US. From what I understand Lee Koon Hung and Tat-Mao Wong both dominated Southeast Asian MMA: the rules in these competitions were less slighted against CMA.
[QUOTE=ironcu;732185]For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
Ironcu.[/QUOTE]
“One idea”
The UFC/Pride/MMA worlds are bound by rules or competetive regulations “NOT taking away from the skill of those involved” and exclude one of the most important aspects of CMA’s. I would hope that I would never find myself in a situation where this theory was put to the test but for the traditionalist who found him/herself in an altercation where the only choice was to defend… the vital organs are not off limits. Of course this is not an option in competetive sports but if you are asking why the traditional CMA artists of the past have failed in sport fighting I would have to say that you have dismissed one of their most important tools. Attacking the throat, eyes, temples… scratching, biting. (You get the idea).
“Would you limit the western boxer to only using his/her feet in a fight?”
I don’t believe that traditional CMA’s are equipped for controlled competition or any sport competetion that is not a fight to the death. CMA’s are a tool for self betterment and defense, not for restrictive sports.
i think theres no kung.fu fighters in ufc because first you have like to fight because its not the money my friend in the states is working his way up he said it dont pay crap but he likes it .i have sparred with him a lot and a few others . and all i have to say is for a real kung.fu artist would be able to beat ufc guys because lets face the truth its not that hard to stop a grappler. thats the real truth
[QUOTE=ironcu;732191]For all the so called kung fu martial artists out there…can anyone give me an honest answer???
By now I am sure most of you have heard enough stories about how skillful and incredible some kung fu masters are and that kung fu skills can over come external forces coming from bigger opponents etc…you get my point. so my question is for all the greatest kung fu masters and martial artists from all over the world including yourself, why haven’t any kung fu man (mantis, tai chi, hung gar, shaolin, choy lay fut, wing chun, xing yi, ba gua, jkd whatever etc…) able to use his skills in the MMA (Mixed Martial Arts tournament) or the Ultimate Fighting Champion??? Is it because of the size, strength, speed or fear or lack of skills or what? Please if anyone can give me an honest answer I would appreciated. And I am sure some of you martial artists out there would like to know too…thanks you for your time and honesty!
Ironcu.[/QUOTE]
What martial art do you do?
And why haven’t you thought about reppin for the KF clans? Tell us why YOU don’t want to represent KF in the MMA world?
