people do kung fu for many reasons.but in todays modern lifestyle i dont think kung fu can be what it was.how many kung fu practioners can say they can trains 6 hours day 7 days a week??? NOT MANY!
there are many other things in life to do…work, job, family…very few Can dedicate all their time to training and training alone!
it seems the argument here is on the issue of a real life fight situation, in which case most kung fu practicioners would find themselves on the end of a serious beating.
i learn kung fu and i admit i wouldnt want to get involved in a fight because i know there is a high chance i will get beaten because i havent done any sparring whatsoever! techniques i learn from forms…and all techniques that you see in forms are hard to apply to real situations unless you are “naturally gifted” or “that good as a fighter”.
i find it hard to believe that a “good” kung fu practioner could easily and successfully apply “chin-na” moves in a fight.
and when i say “fight”…i mean a situation where the opponent is bigger/stronger/and probably a brawler!
the only way to be good at kung fu is to have started at a young age and trained everyday for hours on end!
so i think many kung fu practioners need to realise that no training is ever enough!
those people that boast of their skills are doing nothing but asking for trouble…kidding yourselves into thinking you are something you are not!
i gladly admit i will never be good at kung fu…bcoz i cant train hours on end 7-days a week! and this makes me my own business and just train hard when i can and do train!
rogue: sounds good! im sure its very rewarding This is the kinda thing we used to do when we worked on kata bunkai as well… often for example take the first movement in the form and work on different applications of it etc. for the whole night. Then we would do some sparring and trying to apply it in a free situation.
mizong kid: agreed - how many people these days can train more than 3 hours per day? 3 hours per day within a class structure and wiht partners for example. i know i certainly cant so have to make best use of my time available. i used to compete in full contact karate, boxing and had a few MT fights as well before i met my Sifu. They really helped me a lot. But nowadays i train mainly for health, so i do more Qigong - especially hard qigong.
If i plan my time wisely i can train around 4 hours a day, getting up at 5am each time. Some of that is maybe playing with friends who do other skills, but most is Qigong and basic training. Again, thats just my focus.
But i think some good training is better than no good training. for example i have been beaten by a group of 3 guys, but thankfully i knew how to cover my weak places so the damage was minimal compared to what it could have been. its not like the movies - u win some and lose some. but thankfully i have survived all things that have happened without real bad injuries.
i liked competing because it really developed a strong intention to finish things as much as possible and to not be so worried about getting hurt. Nowadays im a little too mello win that respect, but working on it
i also dont think you need to be training since you were young and for hours on end. A certain minimum is needed i agree, but you have to train smart and in the right way - or you have nothing.
As far as kung leks original post… some people like sport fighting and follow it. me, im not really interested at all so not obsessive in the least. most of the time people post about it i have no clue what they are going on about i dont think that sport fighting is the be all and end all as there are too many variables. yet i respect the people who do train for these events - just as i respect wushu people for all their hard work and skill… or other sports persons.
I don’t think that there is anything wrong with CMA, as someone mentioned I think the problem lies with the practicioners.
Furthermore I blame the media and movies for a lot of the rubbish & misconceptions going on in the CMA scene.
You see if I want to buy good X someone will be there to sell me good X, regardless if it is ****e or not.
hence we got the “Church of scientology” and similar things
So a lot of MA schools provide EXACTLY what their customers want, may it be a healing dance, “street effective” techniques, spiritual enlightenment or traditional rubbish.
Most people are not interested in the FULL curriculum, but only want a selected bit that they think is the “Magic Pill” that solves their problems.
And that applies to nearly everything they and most of us do.
Like always the real deal is still out there, but it cannot stand out against the NEON-signs of the frauds.
I was lucky to find my current kwoon, we train very traditional and my Sifu stresses basics and principles very much.
Funny thing is one of the senior students also teaches “Yang” 24 at the same kwoon.
End Results:
“Yang” 24 = 6 students from the neighbourhood
Chen TJQ = 20 students with some travelling a few hours to class.
BTW, most of our Chen TJQ students are ex-24 stylists.
Almost every day, I get calls from people who “don’t want karate or tae kwon do”.
My school features no belts, uniforms, or additional fees. We train in the traditional manner, doing kung fu for both combat and health benefits.
Every week, I am meeting new students who are genuinely interested in training kung fu specifically. They don’t want karate dressed up as kung fu, they don’t want to do knuckle pushups or splits, and they know that the movies are totally fake.
In our training, we spar constantly. Though we have no mats in our school, we still practice takedowns and breakfalls. After all, there are no mats to fall on in the streets (despite the insistence of a certain misguided poster here that there ARE).
The other day, my student took me down and was going to twist my arm off. I reached over and stuck my thumb in his eye. That’s the kind of move that is considered illegal in competition, but we practice it all the time because it’s what saves you in REAL fighting.
Must be hard to find training partners and students if you’re constantly gouging each other’s eyes out.
See, this is the problem–it’s a mindset issue. I look at something like an eyegouge and I know there is NO way you can practice that remotely full speed. Same with throat tears or strikes. To me that is NOT training realistically.
To YOU, MMA style training is not realistic because we sometimes don’t focus on these types of maneuvers.
In a non-life or death encounter, sparring lasts far longer than it would in the street because really NASTY moves like that are pulled.
Like it or not, there’s very little way to truly prepare for a real streetfight. You can simulate various aspects of it, but nothing will teach a person how to fight through severe injury other than fighting through severe injury.
Only an IDIOT wouldn’t gouge a guy’s eyes out on the street when he’s got you in a compromising position, Merryprankster.
At least we train for that possibility while you’re getting your arms ripped off.
None of the armbreaks I know allow you to get close enough to gouge my eyes. What the heck was this guy trying? Never mind–don’t answer that.
I’m not suggesting that gouging eyes isn’t a good idea, I’m suggesting that you have no idea if your gouge “actually works,” because you stopped before say, he jerked his head away, etc. Unless you buried it 3 knuckles deep or something…
Of course we’re not actually going to get anywhere with this, so I’ll just bow out with my eyeballs intact.
Our local bjj bb is legally blind from eye damage he got in a fight.
But then, he was blinded by a gunshot, and he still trains, competes, and aspires to be a world champ. My guess is that immediately after losing his eye, he was out of action, though. Take from that what you will.
CSN: thats great that he has adapted and developed his skill even though suffering that. my sisuk trains wing chun, qigong and taijiquan and even travels to teach 2 classes a week and he is registered legally blind
yup agreed… my sisuk is blind in one eye and has around 10% vision in the other because of an operation he had when he lost his sight. Hes really one of my true heros with what he has accomplished. i spend a lot of time with him when i visit my sifu
Q: How blind are you? Were you born blind or was it an accident?(details?)
A: I have been diagnosed with the clinical and legal diagnosis of blindness in both eyes with a vision no better than 20/200. I also have a condition by medical definition called Agnosia. Agnosia is a rare disorder characterized by an inability to identify or recognize objects or persons despite having knowledge of the characteristics of the objects or the persons. For instance, if there is a cassette on a table, I may think it is a remote control. I also have Prosopagnosia which is a condition also called Face Blindness. Prosopagnosia is a neurological condition that impairs a person’s ability to recognize faces. Usually Agnosia are caused by a head trauma although not always. There is a website to explain Prosopagnosia in laymen terms if interested, it is www.prosopagnosia.com and Agnosia’s in general for more medical definition, which is www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and medical/disorders/agnosia.htm . These conditions are certainly interesting, if you look at me you would not be able to tell I have a visual problem unless you specifically knew. I think most people think if you have a visual problem then you need glasses and a cane, not always. There are some people who have been legally blind and still do every day things.
In 1997 a random person who had an argument with someone else and came to shoot that person but I was shot in my left temple and the bullet exited through the lower right half of my head. The bullet had went through my Occiptial lobe and the eyes are connected to the Occipital lobe which transfers the image of sight to the brain. Due to the injury which caused lesions, that interrupts the complete image sent to the brain which causes the sight impairment. I spent a few years recovering from the physical part, then the mental then the retraining in a different way. I also managed to get back to the art I love so much, BJJ and with so much help from family and Carlos Machado I was able to be better than ever—with exception of sight.
“people do kung fu for many reasons.but in todays modern lifestyle i dont think kung fu can be what it was.how many kung fu practioners can say they can trains 6 hours day 7 days a week??? NOT MANY!”
I think kung fu could now be better than in the old days. I don’t think you have to train as long today to get the same results. Sports medicine, nutrition, video of what others are doing, excercise equipment can all make for more efficient training sessions. The guys today who train a full day 7 days a week are probably better fighters than any of the guys from the old days.
“rogue: sounds good! im sure its very rewarding”
Once in a while it is Dawood, most of the time I wonder why I bother. After all if I need techniques I could just pop in a Systema, BJJ or any number of tapes available. Like I said it’s become more of a hobby for me, like guitar playing or collecting old Corgi cars.
HKV: “Kung fu is meant for the street, not the ring.”
Matter of opinion. I know several guys who have proven themselves to be deadly, and they were all avid kickboxing competitors. They had no problem switching between the field and the ring and back again.
Once in a while it is Dawood, most of the time I wonder why I bother.
its clear to me why After doing kata for so long, to work on application and have something you have done for so long just ‘click’ and you understand it makes everything worthwhile. and once you know how to use it its great because you have already practised the core movement in the form so much!
CSN: inspirational! yup, i think my sisuk has something similar in the eye he can ‘see’ from, which is not good! Actually when training you cant tell that he has a visual impairment at all… it also slightly affects his balance but the trianing has pretty much cured that. i have never met anyone more energetic and robust, and also good with directions
This is the kinda thing we used to do when we worked on kata bunkai as well… often for example take the first movement in the form and work on different applications of it etc. for the whole night. Then we would do some sparring and trying to apply it in a free situation.
i dont think that sport fighting is the be all and end all as there are too many variables. yet i respect the people who do train for these events - just as i respect wushu people for all their hard work and skill… or other sports persons.
