what do you guys think of kung fu?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
81

i admit wushu and all those mad acrobatic stuff look cool as heck and real fun to do.. wish i could do some of those purely for the fun part :slight_smile:

as for the cuties, i think being with a wushu or tkd gal would be kinda cool :stuck_out_tongue:

I remember when i trained Shotokan Karate, it was really a kinda weird environment. It was just run in a school hall, and i started when i was 8. We did a lot of forms and basic training, as well as fun and games & point sparring. But as i got up to around 13 or so the trianing became much harder and we practised more and more application from the kata - even more so than the competitive side. We also did a lot of free but controlled sparring using the applications from forms, and then had a good time with the competitive side as well. I used to compete semi and full contact (kinda knockdown rules) up until i was 20, which was good experience. Did ok against TKD and kickboxers as well…

I always thought this would be the kinda average school, but i guess i was lucky and mistaken :confused:

dawood

82

Come on man, it’s all about the PJs! I’ve got a satin set, the ladies love the satin! lol
As far as the wushu goes…well I don’t know if I look to good doing it right now either.

83

Karate or TKD schools like that are rare David.

84

yeah when i was a kid i used to do gymnastics as well, and when i was older aikido. so i really love falling and spinning etc. thankfully a northern system my sifu teaches has some jumping and spinning in it - nothing like wushu though. But coming from aikido/gymnastics/shotokan to doing wing chun… man sometimes i just wanna stretch out and jump! :stuck_out_tongue:

dawood

85

Satin PJs, checking the oil and Red5Angel dressing Ap up in a sundress like he’s a farkin Barbie doll. What the h e l l has happened to you guys?:eek:

Next thing you know you’ll be discussing your favorite Trading Spaces episodes!

86

NP - they DO looked pimped out tho… I should get a set for the crib… but they require an understanding guest… or she might just laff at ya… unless… ofcourse u were a millionaire…

87

hi rogue,

yup, when i trained with other people back in Scotland i noticed a difference… i guess its because we didnt go to competitions all THAT much, but focussed a lot more on kata bunkai. Although i dont train now and the person who took over from my Sensei is a pile of steaming poo - im glad for the foundation he gave me :slight_smile:

dawood

88

I’m glad no-one responded to my post in deadly earnest, ahtellyewhut…

89

what do i think?

I think that the search to attain Kungfu is one of the good things in my life.

as a fighting mechanism it is also very handy dandy :smiley:

I think the impetuosity of some folks is more th cause of their demise than what they train.

I’ve sparred with guys who do all kinds of things. Some are good some suck but at the root, they are all good for making the effort.

Kungfu is not about what’s best for me. I’m as good at this point in time as I’m gonna be. I don’t feel a need to compete so I don’t, but if I am presented with the misfortune of having to defend myself or another, then I am glad that I have spent a great deal of my life studying martial arts. Not only cma too.

It’s all good.

It’s funny how kungfu is like that. It tempers you into the person who doesn’t enjoy fighting but rather sees it as a last resort in terms of solutions to a problem.

some people are firecrackers who are never secure in themselves. This in turn makes them highly competitive or makes them highly insular.

some guys do it because they are good at it and can actually make a living by fighting. Trust me, careers are not long and if you are going to risk your health and well being for money, it better be a whole lotta money or you are simply not “with it” if ya get my inference.

why the heck would you wanna get smacked around for nothing? Unless of course that’s some kind of sexual drive for you :smiley:

yin and yang boys, yin and yang.

keep training

cheers

90

Yah, i think kf’s great!.

91

From where Im standing…

the current state of CMA is great. I goto class 5 times a week for 2 hours with 6 other people. We train until our legs shake and our lungs burn. The other 3 groups just like ours withen sparring distance seem to progress just as quickly as us. I go on the internet to random forum and see a good number of random people from all over convincing me through their posts that they train just as hard and kick just as much ass.

blah blah blah.

What is this randomness about the reputation of a particular “style” or particular group of styles or methods and what not. Its a shame.

I dout martial arts in general is any different now then it ever was. Only the elite become elite.

:eek:

Do you honestly care what deadly method the bad guy is using when you drop into battle mode?

92

The problem is the state of kung fu practitioners - some of them anyway. There are far too many people who are trying to train to get in shape, for spiritual reasons, philosophy, etc. sport fighting does not draw that crowd…it tends to draw people who want to compete and fight. That alone puts them at a different level, because they already have the midset that they want to fight. That combined with good, fight oriented training puts them ahead of the game early.

93

Originally posted by dezhen2001
[B]

So how is the training different in regards to your kung fu experience and new methods? Is it just the sparring or what?

[/B]

It’s a completely different world. Kung fu training was hard where I was, but was mainly stances and forms. We did alot of light sparring, but we did go hard several times a month.

bjj on the other hand is constantly balls to the wall. drill, drill, drill, roll, roll, roll. It’s an excellent workout, and progress at rolling happens faster, because we roll all the time. bjj is more focused than kung fu - in kung fu, there was punches, kicks, throws, locks, forms, stance work, etc… bjj is grappling, plain and simple. We do standing once a week, and grappling the three. on the fourth, we just drill.

judo is pretty much the same as bjj, as far as training methodology - it’s specific, so we don’t have to spread class time across several different areas.

That said, that is the reason many people say that in a fight, they’d pick a 6 month sport fighter over a 6 month traditional guy - the sport training tends to be more focused.

94

Interesting topic

I will probably get blasted for this but this is the way I see it, Kung Fu has very sound underlying principles that could be applied to the real world realities of self defense but for the most part most current instructors fail to do so. When I was younger & learning, one of my first Kung Fu teachers would always instruct us that fighting had the potential to occur at four ranges (striking, kicking, seizing / trapping & wrestling / ground fighting) and yet so very few traditional Kung Fu styles actually address this (in truth so did the school I was in at the time), while the modern martial art seems to embrace this concept. I also quickly became familiar with the Cantonese expression ‘Yaht Dahm, Yi Lik, Saam Gung Fu’, meaning First is Courage, Second is Strength / Power & Third is Kung Fu or technique. It seems to me however most traditional Kung Fu players spend most of their time training in the third part (& usually forms - only part of Kung Fu training but not the whole) to the expense of not even addressing the first two sometimes. To my understanding JKD schools train you to be able to fight while dealing with your opponent hurling profanities & attempting to intimidate you (Courage / dealing with fear), how many traditional schools actually spar nonetheless train you to deal with psychological factors that you will most likely half to contend with in probable real life situation. The modern martial artists tend to take the need to be fit & strong a lot more serious then do the traditionalists. One of the early Chinatown Kung Fu schools I attended had many ‘social members’ that would often just show up to chat.

I often like to explain to people that the Chinese martial arts is as much a culture trip as it is martial art, may be even more so to the first part. Much of what is retained is due to cultural customs of preserving a tradition as opposed to looking at whether or not it remains relevant (ie; antiquated weapon training). Basically there’s a lot of trappings that go along with the Chinese martial arts, so that if one is looking purely for self defense they will be learning in a very round about way. Many Kung Fu players get more caught up in the history, pageantry & politics of their styles then the actual process of training & becoming a competent martial artist.

Just a few of my views.
Cheers
:cool:

95

It’s interesting to note that “traditional” training back in the feudal days mixed spiritual practice with actual fighting. I’m going to play devil’s advocate here for a moment. I’ve seen a lot of people downplay the ethical and spiritual aspects of martial art in an almost fallacy-like way. The reason I say this is because people see (over and over again) schools who do not fight, do not train athletically, and do not test their knowelde in full contact environments BECAUSE they claim “spirituality” keeps them from doing so.
This is simply a fallacy on their part. And it’s interestin to see that many people can accept that a “mcdojo” has no understanding of true training methods, but doesn’t seem to accept that the “mcdojo” type of attitude has no undersanding of traditional martial spirituality either.

“Ethical philosophy” (I don’t want to use the term spirituality) SHOULD be included in realistic training and martial art. Too many people seem to think this “martial spirit” means to roam from city to city with a flute on your back, spit out haiku, and become one with Kuan Yin.
Ethical aspects on how you use the training is what the “martial art spirituality” should be about.

The reason is that we are all in conclusion that real martial art should be about true combat. You should be able to use what you know in full contact environments, you should practice fighting by fighting. This is what MA was always supposed to be… no Chinese or Japanese soldier sat there and practiced forms all day in preparation for war… Just as no knight or viking did anything of the sort either.
It was all about fighting. Being able to fight well. Fight BETTER than others.
Therefore…it was the TRAINING, not the art, that was deadly. The skills were deadly. They were dangerous.
If you have a dangerous weapon in your possession then it behooves you to include time for responsibility training, ethical understanding of the power you have, etc.

We accept this kind of “ethical training” in firearm certification, police training, etc.

When someone purchases a gun, we have background checks, safety courses, etc.

It’s my feeling (and maybe it’s just me) that the more REAL your training is…the more ethical aspects you should put into your practice.
This isn’t about going to church, or doing a religion… it’s about spending time with people who are learning to FIGHT for real to make sure they have the proper understanding of ethics and responsibility.

One could say “if they want to commit a crime, they’ll do it whether or not they know martial arts…”

But you can say the same thing about someone who wants a gun. Yet they don’t get that gun.

Just my 2 cents. I think “martial virtue” is a very important thing. But just like everything else, it’s gotten caught up in this “I’m Caine, I’m a shaolin priest” stuff…

It’s not about that at all.

Ryu

96

As usual, good post.

“Ethical philosophy” (I don’t want to use the term spirituality) SHOULD be included in realistic training and martial art. Too many people seem to think this “martial spirit” means to roam from city to city with a flute on your back, spit out haiku, and become one with Kuan Yin.
Ethical aspects on how you use the training is what the “martial art spirituality” should be about.

I can’t agree more with that. Like I’ve said before, that should be a byproduct of good training - you focus on fighting and learn the responsible use of it. I know several people who think that because they train, they should be like monks, and try to act the same. They get obsessed with it and their training starts to lose its focus. I’ve always said, if you want spirituality, go to church, a temple, etc.

The reason is that we are all in conclusion that real martial art should be about true combat. You should be able to use what you know in full contact environments, you should practice fighting by fighting. This is what MA was always supposed to be… no Chinese or Japanese soldier sat there and practiced forms all day in preparation for war… Just as no knight or viking did anything of the sort either.
It was all about fighting. Being able to fight well. Fight BETTER than others.
Therefore…it was the TRAINING, not the art, that was deadly. The skills were deadly. They were dangerous.

indeed.

97

Good post ryu. I always like to think of “Ethical philosophy” as simple responsibility for ones actions. I do think that martial artists who are sport oriented and to a degree anyone who spars at decent intensity(ie people sometimes get injured) will realize the responsibility they have for what they do.

98

Good post all in all, but.

"… no Chinese or Japanese soldier sat there and practiced forms all day in preparation for war… Just as no knight or viking did anything of the sort either. "

What do forms have to do with ethics or spirituality?

And, they did, its called drilling. Every army in the world does it. Back then and today. Except in this age they shoot at a firing range or taget arena, and field strip thier M-16. They practice assualt tactics. How to “move” in a particular terrain. They practice how to best “position” themselves to get the best “shot”. They practice every manuever countless times before they go off to war. They practice until its second nature. Pilots spend countless hours in flight sims. Gunners practice loading, unloading, targeting and moving their equipment. And all without actually killing anyone. They had to learn somehow.

Forms have nothing to do with the Mcdojo problem directly. Also, if they are just “sitting around” thier form can’t be that good anyhow.

99

True, but the difference there, IMO is that some people don’t know how to use their forms. they either 1) don’t fight using the principles in their forms, meaning that they haven’t drilled them enough and don’t quite understand them or 2) they think the form is the exact way they will fight, and that’s wrong. Either way, they are practicing the form with the wrong intent in mind, along with light, little or no sparring (in some cases, anyway)

100

Right now I’m using forms to pull techniques from and it’s not an easy process, at least for me.

  1. You have to know the kata.
  2. You have to know something about anatomy(sp?)
  3. You have to visualize what’s happening.
  4. Adjust the move. For example, the opening move of Hwarang is performed square on to the opponent, but really works great if you step off line at a 45 degree angle.
  5. You need to practice it “as is” on a partner.
  6. You then need to loosen it up and get rid of any flowery or stiff stuff that gets in the way of the technique.
  7. You need to try it out again.
  8. Finally you need to try it out in a dynamic(sparring, dynamic drills) situation.
  9. After all this work you still may be wrong.

That’s an awful lot of work for each move. The only reason I do it is because it’s kind of a hobby and my formal training time was reduced to a couple hours per month.