lmao @ “oil check”. I’ll never forget the first time I heard that term (high school wrestling) and we wonder why grapplers get portrayed as romo.
no. we don’t. 
ummm… thanks for the posts guys, but thats not really what i was asking..
like i said it turned in to the usual vs. argument, but i was wanting to COMPARE training methods and experiences, especially with people who had done one and changed, or still do both… also find out what the current state of CMA is nowadays - especially in the USA.
Have any of you sparred against people who train in good kung fu? If so what did you think of it? Do any of you guys train kung fu as well as some other skills (wrestling etc.)? How do you find it?
those who train in kung fu - what do u think the current state of CMA is in general? How can it be improved? What do you think of the western/competitive MA skills etc.?
thanks! 
dawood
dezhen - “also find out what the current state of CMA is nowadays - especially in the USA”
Crap mostly. You have to dig through alot of garbage to find anything really worth studying, it’s just most people don’t want to expend the energy to put into it. hobbyist mostly. Some people say thats ok, but I think in some ways it’s killing the martial arts, especially the classic arts.
all of this for the wrong discussion… well… I think we answered the second part pretty good…
Have any of you sparred against people who train in good kung fu? If so what did you think of it?
they were good at what they did… I don’t attribute it to any style name or whatever… but they were good… they trained hard and it showed… they had weaknesses… but who doesn’t…
Do any of you guys train kung fu as well as some other skills (wrestling etc.)? How do you find it?
I would hope that I could classify as a “Kung Fu” guy… but it really doesn’t matter to me… the only differnce I find with working out with other ‘styles’ is the focus… I worked out with Judokas… they focused more on throws and groundwork… I was/am weak in those area and was quickly enlightened… but a few of them i know i could kick the sh!t out of just like they could throw me on my neck and dislocate something… its all a different means to the same end… whats in a name… really…
I alos have to agree with suntzu here, the one guy I have come across that really impressed me with his skill didn’t have anything but alot of time and energy into his training.
I believe a lot of people a starstruck when it come to MA… mixed or otherwise… u train smart and hard… u will get results… no matter what it called or where it originates from… the debate shouldn’t be about style vs. style… but training vs. training…
u train smart and hard… u will get results… no matter what it called or where it originates from… the debate shouldn’t be about style vs. style… but training vs. training…
exactly… thats why i was trying to highlight that to be good in anything you need to train.
Also i was wondering about the state of MA in general in the USA, as i dont think here in the UK its quite so bad in respect to the McDojo etc.
So how is the training different in regards to your kung fu experience and new methods? Is it just the sparring or what?
im just trying to get a reasonably on topic thread for a change
dawood
red5angel,
I think that is one if not the biggest factor here. I work from 8-5:30 every day. It’s hard enough just to get to class the 3-4 days a week I go. The guys who I have seen that really impress me do this for a living. Its comparing the recreationalist with the pros in some sense. Look at biking, skiing, baseball, any of those things.
The guys who I’ve sparred with, while some being much better, don’t always impress me with a lot of things. With time I’d have to say that there aren’t too many that I’ve seen that I couldn’t see beating if I had the time to put into it (I’m actually changing my training schedule soon to try to get into this more again). Don’t get me wrong, there are a few, and I’ll be the first to admit I’m not that good, however it sometimes amazes me how some people really don’t have that good of basics, or rely on some things way too much. I hate saying this because it sounds dumb and naive, but one of the better fighters around that I’ve (obviously) seen is my shirfu. He likes using his taichi alot, which is dope when he gets some throws in and the like.
I’d also like to say, there are a butt load of teachers now in the U.S. a lot with the questionable experience to be running a school and the like. It’s crazy how many corner store dojos are going up still, even with the economy in a slump here.
As far as the other martial arts in my area, there are some pretty good grapplers (why I’m changing my schedule) around, haven’t much experience with the wrestlers, or too many Karate, Kempo, or TKD in the sparring area of things, but from local tournies, I’d have to look around and say…eh…
I would have to agree with suntzu and apowen. Traditional cma is more of a sign of the times. Ihave no doubt that cma was/is very effective to those that can train all day everyday and become really proficient. But nowadays people have jobs and other responsibilities that doesnt let them put that much time into it. They may stillbecome proficient, but no where near the proficiency of long ago. Its kinda like Michael Jordan has lost a few steps as he gets older, but at the same time, these were steps that no one else had.
If I was about to fight, I would want 5 years of MMA training as opposed to 5years of CMA training.
This being said all I have trained is CMA.
AOF:confused:
“The problem typically stems from training methods and training attitudes, not necessarily from the arts themselves.”
I thought that the arts were formed by using particular training methods and having particular training attitudes.
I do stuff based in what I understand to be Kung-Fu.
Hopefully I would not claim to be a Kung-Fu person because I think I should train better to do that. But for the sake of education…Whoever here has met me I tend to do Kung-Fu-y type things.
If Kung-Fu is about contacting and hurting, it also has to be about adapting to the situation.
I would be really reluctant to face-shot someone rushing me if I thought it might connect. With a base of Kung-Fu I could understand several other things. But hurting another…hopefully there is no Just cause.
Perhaps everything is learning and teaching. This might be Kung-Fu.
NP - I understand why most people just don’t have the skill they are capable of. Priorities and all that. Unfortunately what happens is someone sort of half a$$es training for 10 years, gets “through” their system, and then goes on to teach, so what happens is you end up learning not from someone who really has a deep understanding of the art, but someone who has just put in time. Just putting in time is not enough in my mind. You have to pay your dues, fight some, test what it is you learned.
The other thing is all these interpretations of arts sometimes are more of a bad thing then a good thing. In my experience it isn’t that someone has found a better way, so much as found something that seems to work for them.
This thread sucks a–
Sorry, wrong thread. My mistake.
In the US… McDojo’s are every where… and as a classically trained accountant… it’s a good business move… there it lots of $$$ in hyperactive kids playing Kung Fu… and aging men/women wanting to stay in shape… and I really don’t see anything wrong with it… its a value for value trade… they pay for what they want… or think they want or want for right now… if they want something else… they stop paying or pay out there contract… that is business…
i think all of this CMA is going down the toilet is either from people that spent $$$ for something they didn’t want and cant let it go(but i feel u time + $ is time + $) or they for some reason feel that “this is how it should be done” and just wont let others live… but i do feel sorry for those who live in an area surrounded by crap… but in that case get some friend and train yourself… hard… u never know u might be a sifu oneday… or not…
Just putting in time is not enough in my mind. You have to pay your dues, fight some, test what it is you learned.
I agree… but just to be an azz… I mean play devil’s advocate… maybe he’s all about the forms???
“maybe he’s all about the forms???”
Well first I would have to ask why, and if his answer wasn’t because they are a dancer and need some new moves or to get some excersise, I may just have to kick some ass. I have heard a few, a small few but it still out there, that the forms is all they need, and thats just plain dumb.
the wushu schools… for the most part all all about the forms… its all good tho…
Just putting in time is not enough in my mind. You have to pay your dues, fight some, test what it is you learned.
No doubt, unfortunately, many “assume” too much. Many people hear that so and so has been in the arts for 25 years or even 7-8 years and figure that they have been through some tough training, etc.
All about the forms.
NP
what, there fun to me. It’s not all I do…lol I’ve actually started doing a (**** I’m going to get mamed for this) a contemporary wushu form, just for fun, and it is fun as hell. I still do just about the same amount of everything else as well, so I don’t see it hurting, I’m not going to try to bust out an ariel in a fight or anything.
I’m doing all the forms for fun, for training, getting conditioned, etc. The sparring and drilling is where the techs. get refined to the point I feel is plenty for what I use it for. Plus, I have blown out both knees now (the last one still affects me, I’m still strengthening the quads in the left leg), it took me a little while to get back into sparring, as I was a little nervous when anything was thrown toward my legs.
looking around I would love to know a wushu form… they cool as he|| to look at… well not if I did it… plus wushu got all the cuties… but I’m not rockin the pj’s…