We have a curriculum thats a mixture of some pretty sweet forms. I don’t know all the forms in our curriculum but I can list what I know. From what I seen other schools have to offer, we have a few forms that others don’t. The Weapons form I am not sure what they are by name.
12 Kicks (?)
Wu Shou
Chi SHou
Beng Po
Li Pi Quan
Tang Lang Shou
Staff
Xaio Hu Yan
Da Hu Yan
Broadsword
Mei Hua Luo
Er Lu Jai Wai
Juey Tang lang
Kwan Do
And the rest I have no clue. I’d like to learn more that our school doesn’t have like
Mei Hua Luo
Da Fan Che
So if your gonna post them, keep them coming. Once I learn what each movement is. Im practicing hard.
I know up to Tang Lang Tao Tow. Ive been in in out for 4 1/2 years due to my hellish work schedule. It’s hard learning when not in class. So You guys are extra helpful when it comes to new stuff.
well our whole system has 82 hand forms or something like that.
Although the grading syllabus doesnt incorparate all of these…once you have reached the highest grade possible its just a case of whether or not the sifu/you want to learn the rest of the forms not in the grades.
currently i know
bung bo
gunglek kuen
daw ghong kuen
sap bah sou
haw fuk
yee low
tsahp tchoy
dai fan chie
bi yuan
bi yuan tam tao
moi fa low
staff
sabre (bagua dran do and a shaolin form)
double daggers - Sern Bei Sao
straight sword - Chi Ng Gim
My shifu knows over 100 Mantis forms, but there are those he likes more than others. According to the basic curricullum he designed (not rigidly adhered to) the following forms are taught in this order:
Ba-bu Lianhuan
Xiao Hu-yan
Xiao Jia-zi
Liuhe Duan-kao
Beng Bu
Da Jia-zi
Meihua-luo
Meihua-quan
Meihua-shou
Baiyuan Chudong
Baiyuan Toutao
Baiyuan Xianguo
Jiekui Quan
Feiyan Zhang
Rouling Quan
Duogang Quan
16-shi Kaohe Lanjie (Figure out how to link 16 moves yourself)
I’ve only learned up to Baiyuan Chudong, though I’ve also studied Lipi Quan, Yedi-Canghua, and some of the Zhaiyao (Summary) forms.
That’s as far as he has listed on the curriculum. After that you have to do three more advanced forms to go up a rank, like Tanglang Chudong, Tanglang Shou, Zhai Kui, etc. I think his most advanced forms are called Shuaishou Tanglang (Hand Throwing Mantis), as well as something called Nezha-shi, which I believe focuses on using all the limbs with maximum efficiency (named after a Chinese god that can grow extra limbs).
This is my next form. I thought we have Tang Lang Tao Tou, but it is this Tanglang Shou:p My bad. Its a pretty easy form. I know the first 12 movements.
Ive got some videos of some of us doing formsfrom class last night. I will post later on.
Forms shown will be
xaio Hu Yan
Da Hu Yan
Beng Bu
Chi SHou (by me)
Li Pi Quan
Part of Tang Lang Shou
Wu Shou
We are really just practicing working out all of our kinks.
kevin,
How can there be such a drastic difference in the number of forms from mantis to mantis. No one can say that Zhang De kuei and Li Kun Shan were not top guys. Why the difference beween their few sets versus the 82s and the over 100s out there?
Onyomi & Monkeyfoot
what style of mantis are you guys talking about?
My shifu just likes to call his Mantis “Northern Mantis,” as he does forms associated with 7*, Meihua, 6 Harmony and Mimen. It pretty much all comes from his teacher, Wang Song Ting, however, and Wang’s lineage is considered to be 7*. Apparently Wang himself liked to call his style “Hand-throwing Mantis,” and my Shifu also knows 6 forms by that name (Shuai-shou Yilu–Liulu).
My shifu pretty much ascribes to the notion of Mantis being one large art and that 6 Harmony, etc. are more like lineage distinctions or aspects of Mantis rather than whole new styles. So, even though his lineage is 7*, he also knows Meihua and Liuhe forms. The only major style he’s unfamiliar with is 8 Step, because it is relatively new.
In 2002, Kevin ased me if I were to distill all that I have learn from GM Chiu and Galen (they have different approach to the same curriculum) into 3 forms which three of them would they be?
My syllabus one is more for the athletic inclined and ground fighting oriented. I would also add in a form called Jie gen which in some ways similar to Bengbu.
Syllabus two is more for the artistic expression of CCK TCPM from my personal perspective. I would add in either Bengbu or Danzhai Meihwa depending on the focus and time available.
I think the reason behind learning many forms is to help increase understanding of moves and concepts, also helping you work out which specific moves are especially suited to your body type, fighting style, personality, etc.
You could summarize most of the major moves and concepts of Mantis in just a few forms, but then that would mean you have to do a tremendous amount of thinking and experimenting on your own (not necessarily a bad thing ) to figure out the countless ways to use those moves. By learning 50 forms you might learn 25 different versions of gou-lou-cai and 25 different versions of gun-lou shou. This will help you get the concepts of gou-lou-cai and gun-lou by exposing you to the wide variation potential of these moves. You could summarize both of these moves simply in one form, but then that leaves a lot more to the imagination of the practitioner.
Also, I like doing a lot of forms in the sense that although you memorize them, they never become totally hard-wired. You don’t do it so many times in that order that you start thinking this move MUST follow that one. Also, people have questioned my teacher’s very ability to have mastered so many, but that doesn’t seem very strange to me at all. The more Mantis forms you learn the faster new ones come and the faster you understand them. In a way, each new form is also a mental exercise, because it makes you think about old moves in new ways, in addition to adding new moves and concepts.
All of these are advantages to my teacher’s philosophy of doing many forms. There is also the opposite philosophy of doing a small amount of material so much that you know it backwards and forwards, in your sleep. However, since in the process of learning many forms you gradually wittle down the moves to the ones you especially like, the end result tends to be the same. When you do many forms you kind of go on a personal quest to find your own best moves that you will then spend the most time on. Others, like Xingyi like to tell you from the get go: “here are the five moves you use all the time, now master and refine them,” or “here are 5 forms I think represent the essence of Mantis, now master and refine them.” Two different ways of getting to the same place, imo.
[QUOTE=onyomi;699062]I think the reason behind learning many forms is to help increase understanding of moves and concepts, also helping you work out which specific moves are especially suited to your body type, fighting style, personality, etc.
You could summarize most of the major moves and concepts of Mantis in just a few forms, but then that would mean you have to do a tremendous amount of thinking and experimenting on your own (not necessarily a bad thing ) to figure out the countless ways to use those moves. By learning 50 forms you might learn 25 different versions of gou-lou-cai and 25 different versions of gun-lou shou. This will help you get the concepts of gou-lou-cai and gun-lou by exposing you to the wide variation potential of these moves. You could summarize both of these moves simply in one form, but then that leaves a lot more to the imagination of the practitioner.
Also, I like doing a lot of forms in the sense that although you memorize them, they never become totally hard-wired. You don’t do it so many times in that order that you start thinking this move MUST follow that one. Also, people have questioned my teacher’s very ability to have mastered so many, but that doesn’t seem very strange to me at all. The more Mantis forms you learn the faster new ones come and the faster you understand them. In a way, each new form is also a mental exercise, because it makes you think about old moves in new ways, in addition to adding new moves and concepts.
All of these are advantages to my teacher’s philosophy of doing many forms. There is also the opposite philosophy of doing a small amount of material so much that you know it backwards and forwards, in your sleep. However, since in the process of learning many forms you gradually wittle down the moves to the ones you especially like, the end result tends to be the same. When you do many forms you kind of go on a personal quest to find your own best moves that you will then spend the most time on. Others, like Xingyi like to tell you from the get go: “here are the five moves you use all the time, now master and refine them,” or “here are 5 forms I think represent the essence of Mantis, now master and refine them.” Two different ways of getting to the same place, imo.[/QUOTE]
Its been talked about before. Forms are just one small piece of the much larger training puzzle. Mastering forms is the equivalent of dancing. Mastering fighting skills is the epitome of Mantis.
[QUOTE=bungbukuen;699358]Its been talked about before. Forms are just one small piece of the much larger training puzzle. Mastering forms is the equivalent of dancing. Mastering fighting skills is the epitome of Mantis.[/QUOTE]
Mastering forms isn’t the equivalent of dancing IF you’ve really mastered them… because to master them implies realistic understanding of the execution and application of every move in the form.
Also, note I didn’t say “we spend all our class time learning forms,” I said “at our school, we learn a lot of forms.” Forms probably only take up 30% of our class time. We still do a lot of other stuff from pair drills to bag work to qigong to sparring. I never said “forms are all you need to become a great Mantis fighter.” I just said “learning a lot of forms over the course of years can be very helpful to a Mantis fighter.”
Profatilov told me once, the forms are the encyclopedia of your techniques. Me, I think they are very important, and just another piece of the pie. Also forms training is a good cardio workout. I just don`t believe in having 100 forms in my arsenal.
) to figure out the countless ways to use those moves. By learning 50 forms you might learn 25 different versions of gou-lou-cai and 25 different versions of gun-lou shou. This will help you get the concepts of gou-lou-cai and gun-lou by exposing you to the wide variation potential of these moves. You could summarize both of these moves simply in one form, but then that leaves a lot more to the imagination of the practitioner.