What are the forms in your curriculum?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
21

Hi Isreal,

 "How can there be such a drastic difference in the number of forms from mantis to mantis."

The ****her back in time you go the fewer forms there seem to be comprising a style.
Mantis was based on some simple hand moves with certain types of footwork.
When some students learned this they wrote it down(I have been exposing translations of this material bit by bit over the years).

Some generations would add some of his own material.

My Shiye Luan Xingfu had but a handful of zhai yao forms.
His entire methodolgy was all 2 man stuff. When my shifu went there to study Master Luan was not even teaching(retired military). He told my shifu that Mantis couldn’t be learned unless he brought some others to learn with him.

Later my shifu also invited Master Luan to teach at his school on a regular basis.
Warm ups basically started with a breath of air( a big one) and a hard strike to the gut for 40-50 minutes. So in his curriculum there just wasn’t enuf time and energy for a lot fo forms as doing pai da qigung for 40 m is already quite draining.

But, in my opinion, if someone likes to learn a lot of forms there is no reason why that should be denied them if they get enjoyment from it.
Most Masters of the old school will frown on it as it has been their belief that learning a lot of forms has a negative impact on fighting skill.

Of course there are many dissenters to this, such as Onyomi’s shifu, who find that learning a lot fo forms is ok.

‘No one can say that Zhang De kuei and Li Kun Shan were not top guys.’

Actually there were some who said such. These masters put their money where their mouth was and fought it out. That is why we respect their opinions nowadays.

Like 8 step’s Shifu, Wei Xiaotang, and Robert’s shifu, Zhao Zhuxi, who also had relatively few forms, they spent more time on apps.
Their opinion is also highly respected as they have fought many times.

Wei’s Student, Wang Jie (Mike Martello’s Shifu), I think does not do forms at all. He is 100% contact as far as I know.

I think that the forms are a good way to go from no understanding to contact training. They are also a marvel to think and ponder on as the good ones are so intellegently arranged.

Training forms is also a good exercise when you have no partners.

Robert,
You still remember that?

Kevin

22

Hi Kevin

Of course I remember, man! :smiley:

Seriously, that meeting has to be definitely one of the most important ground breaking Kung Fu experiences for me.

The question that you asked actually helps me to better organize my material. In fact, it makes me realize that it’s properly a good idea to “keep the house clean” so to speak. This is why you see the comparatively small amount of forms in my curriculum. BTW, I also believe that mantis is best practice with a partner. GM Chiu ecouraged his students to find a partner of similar size to practice the Sau Fa/Shou Fa.

I believe that it’s a good idea to review the curriculum every 2 years or so, which is what I am doing.

Warmest regards

Robert

23

K. Braizer - Why is Onyomis teacher a dissentor? Using that word makes it sound like his teacher veered defiantly and/or drastically from the ideas prescribed by his originall teacher.

Thanks,
BBK

24

Hi BBK,
No disrespect intended.
Many shifu’s have a large curriculum. Since Onyomi is on this thread I used him as an example.
I might add that my own shifu has learned a lot of forms and teaches according to the characteristics of each individual student.

I too have learned many forms, but i only practice a small number of them.
I suppose if I were to teach a lot of young people I would likely teach some of the exciting kicking forms from the Mizhong Yi aspect of my style.

I hope that clears up my meaning a bit.

Kevin

25

No worries. Just thought I would check because “disent” is a power packed word.

Thanks,
BBK

26

I’m still formulating a curriculum in preparation for teaching again. Since I’m no longer aligned with any school, style or organization I have a free hand to what I want, how I want.

Of course it will change over time as I learn and refine it but it’s a great learning experience in itself. I’ll post more when I’m ready to go public but until then this thread is a wealth of information for me. Thanks guys and keep the info coming.

27

Welcome Yao Sing

You will learn a wealth of knowledge here. Good luck with your school and look forward to your posts.

28

Oh yeah, I forgot you don’t know who I am. Thanks anyhow, Jim.

Guess I need to take some time and fill out my profile.

29

[QUOTE=yu shan;699375]Profatilov told me once, the forms are the encyclopedia of your techniques. Me, I think they are very important, and just another piece of the pie. Also forms training is a good cardio workout. I just don`t believe in having 100 forms in my arsenal.[/QUOTE]

I’ve never heard it put that way, but have always seen forms that way. They are the reference you have for the movements and “flavour” of the system. Practicing forms alone will not make you a fighter, obviously, but they’re great for helping you remember the particulars of a martial art :slight_smile:

30

Forms, Forms, Forms

I remember hearing once that the explosion of forms was for student retention basically to “make the book heavier”. It is true that the material is presented in different combinations and stuff so I can see the pros of both sides.

Jim,
Sifu told me once that learning a bunch of forms was like owning a bunch of P.O.S. cars (note piece of SHIRT cars was my addition). He said pretty soon it gets tiring to wash them all. Instead, he says, have 2 or 3 lamborguinis that you hand polish everyday and that you know the ins and outs of, so when someone says they want to race, they can put their P.O.S. against your lambourguini.
Makes a whole lot of sense to me! But he also said that Mantis was taught to advanced guys back in the day so now we need a few beginner forms to start them off in the way. I personally think two to three basics are good starters before they get the good stuff. We do forms in the school but also work a lot on applications, sparring, and chen style push hands, with a little bag work and conditioning.

israel

31

Sounds like our school with a small curriculum. I have learned a lot of others from other people on my own just for fun too. Just helps pass the time and definently helps when training alone. IMHO:p