Does anyone have links to video clips of kung fu working in NHB and/or real world fight situations?
I am visiting a lot of places as I try to start training for the first time (in, something), and I am trying to reconcile my impression that while they look a lot more - interesting - than just artlessly punching or kicking a sandbag, or grappling, traditional m.a. just don’t seem all that practical. My doubts increased when I saw the video of Jason DeLucia getting his ass kicked by Royce Gracie.
But I’m a total novice, and would love it if a bunch of you could prove me wrong.
Check out San Shou. Regardless of what people say, the techniques are from Gong Fu. It’s just that rules, gloves, etc do not permit many techniques. Also, read some Chinese martial arts history. Gong Fu was used for real combat. You generally don’t see great TCMA fighters in MMA venues. Most TCMA fighters that are interested in combat sport go for San Shou.
“Most TCMA fighters that are interested in combat sport go for San Shou.”
– Okay, but this brings me back to my initial question –> why would they be doing the TCMAs if they only worked as San Shou? (I’m sure I’m missing a few hundred things.)
I’m not 100% clear on your last question but I’ll try to answer. Some guys just do San Shou and only train the stuff that is allowed in San Shou. Others do TCMA and use what they can in San Shou. There are allot of things from TCMA you can’t use in San Shou, or any sport competition.
As for Jason Delucia, he refers to himself as a sensei and calls the praying mantis one of the five animals…
They don’t “only work” in San Shou. San Shou rules work better for them. MMA rules are not geared for chinese martial arts. Just as Karate compations aren’t. You ever watch final fu on MTV? Did you see that Kempo guy kick the kickboxer’s butt but loose by points because he didn’t “kick enough”? That’s what happens when one art, regardless of style, tries to compete in a venue that has rules not designed for his style. The San Shou rule set was devised with Chinese martial arts in mind, so they work best for CMA styles. That is why you are more likely to find the really good CMA players competing in that tyoe of event…
TCMA and San Da can work in MMA. Look at Cung Le. Look at how great he did. Look at how they tried to undermine his San Da by citing his stint with wrestling in college. :rolleyes:
Not touching the San Shou thing (at least not touching the ground)…Traditional being practical.?.
I like to see the one technique and see variations of that. Then variations of force with variations of timing. I start to see that like a sentence and pronunciation I can get different effects.
People who compete in those octagon type televised events might have a notion better than me on the real stuff. I like the thought of doing the technique literally. I get that it Way tones me to be better able to move well and strengthens me including support muscles. But that the technique if actually used does not go all the way through. Yet I repeated the whole long full thing enough that I can read the situation and switch, or stop, jump, restart…the technique. It switches. It might be about appropriate and about percentage–percentage your technique success/failure and their technique success/failure when you get to 60-40 (you/them) you might should incorporate something extra–(more Or Less…)Spirit, Will, technique, strength, Power, Speed, Force, Torque, angle, resistance/tension, distraction, leverage… or blend the technique to a compensation technique.
This is alive and no one involved knows completely how it will go, theoretically. Trial and error, appropriateness, applications and comprehensions. You don't see it as practical because you are expecting only one use. If you look at wood and expect a stick but see a tree you might be confounded. There's perhaps more there than you were presented or thought. Accepting that traditional is a flower that blooms with the light. It might not be one way all the time (evergreen), but is appropriate to the situationas much as the person comprehends and is capable.
By design it has many uses. Can some food be cutseperated with a fork? Can one scoop some food with a fork? To look at it, it is for poking, and it is that, yet there is more possible.
[QUOTE=The Xia;711134]TCMA and San Da can work in MMA. Look at Cung Le. Look at how great he did. Look at how they tried to undermine his San Da by citing his stint with wrestling in college. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I think Cung Le would be the first to admit his style is hybrid and does not come from tcma. If you watch his instuctionals he always says “in wrestling we call this a…” ect.
Xai- K.L. does have some blending in his styles. And he is also one of the very finest champions of San Shou. The fact that he can hold his own in many types of event says little about why many TCMA prationers choose to compete in an event designed to showcase thier chosen fighting style, though. If you want to compete in MMA then by all means, do so. But do so with the realization that they won’t let you use as many of your “tools” as a more specialized type of event would. There’s got to be some give and take in the world of orginized sports.
Cung Le wrestled in college. He was great at it too. But he found his place in San Shou. I never heard of Cung Le being anything other then a San Shou man (besides his college wrestling that is). Perhaps you know something I don’t. Care to elaborate?
"2006 Strikeforce Middleweight MMA Champion
Cung Le vs. Brian Ebersole, Knockout
2006 Strikeforce Middleweight MMA Champion
Cung Le vs. Mike Altman, Knockout"
Any more replies from me, after this one, will be a long while in comming. I’m going on my first real vacation in 4 years as of right now. See ya in a week!
Yeah I know about those fights. I even referred to them in my previous post. I was talking about how you and bodhitree were saying that his style is not just San Shou.
I guess it is more of a point of veiw thing for me. I think of San Sou in the same context as I think of boxing. It can be a style, but is more like a set of guild lines for how to use skills you got somewere else. It’s more of a specialized skill set than a style, I think.
I look at it like this. Not everyone needs a college degree, BA degree, PH.D degree.
Same thing with martial arts. People start with a style, which you need to to start. It gotta start somewhere. As people get good, they move on to other things.
People graduate high school, they move on to college. Some don’t some do. I think when you think yourself as a martial artist you want to always improve. Doesn’t matter what style because you human can only do so much.
For example: A lot of MMA are former karate, kung fu, and other traditional art, but because MMA is such a big thing now. Writers or promoter would say they study MMA or Brazilian JuJitsu. Again JuJitsu started where? Traditional Japanese art.
Again most MMA guys came from traditional martial art background.
No martial art style is better than another thats why you don’t see one type dominate the other. As for MMA, it take a whole different character to do that stuff.
Just think learning martial art we are always taught not to fight. But these MMA guys most of them have been fighting before learning martial art. They are the former bullies in high school. Their mind set is different from people who learn martial art and go in to fight. NOt the the same aggressive mindset.
Just really think.. All the guys in MMA use to fight before they learn martial art. They’re not afraid to hurt someone. Me because I learn not to use martial art only in life and death. I’m more scare to hurt someone.
[QUOTE=Becca;711157]The fact that he can hold his own in many types of event says little about why many TCMA prationers choose to compete in an event designed to showcase thier chosen fighting style, though. If you want to compete in MMA then by all means, do so. But do so with the realization that they won’t let you use as many of your “tools” as a more specialized type of event would. There’s got to be some give and take in the world of orginized sports.:)[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked, MMA events allowed all the things that are allowed in San Shou.
What things are allowed in San Shou that are not allowed in MMA?
