Do you believe that TCMA tournaments that hold San Shou events should limit participation to only TCMA practioners or should any style be allowed to compete under these rules. Personnally I think it would go a long way to allow all styles to compete under San Shou instead of trying to make it strictly for Kung Fu. Thoughts?
100% open to all.
Yes.
Here are some extra words because the forum requires it: purple, monkey, majesty, whirlygig, amoeba, scrabble, Lord John Whorfin
I know there are events that anyone can compete in San Shou but I have also heard of “closed” type events where San Shou competitors have to prove they come from a TCMA background. I think this is a negative approach and further alienates us Kung Fu practioners from the rest of the martial arts world. It also takes from us the opportunity to fight and learn by competing against competitors from other arts.
open to all styles !
ginosifu
all styles!!!
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1138111]open to all styles !
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
Gino, at the Great Lakes tournie are you guys having forms and continuous sparring competitions again. Last time I was there is was only San Shou and Shuai Ciao?
sure, why not? It has a rule set, so any style can enter, they just have to stay to the rule set and it’s all good.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1138114]sure, why not? It has a rule set, so any style can enter, they just have to stay to the rule set and it’s all good.[/QUOTE]
True, but why is it certain organizations try to keep other styles or competitors out. I personally feel it betters one as a martial artist to be able to test yourself against other styles.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1138115]True, but why is it certain organizations try to keep other styles or competitors out. I personally feel it betters one as a martial artist to be able to test yourself against other styles.[/QUOTE]
Testing oneself VS OTHER systems is the only thing that keeps a system from becoming “inbreed” and obsolete.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1138115]True, but why is it certain organizations try to keep other styles or competitors out. I personally feel it betters one as a martial artist to be able to test yourself against other styles.[/QUOTE]
When you are not strong enough, sometime it’s better to make youself strong first before open yourself up to face the outside challenge. When you are as strong as the US military, you can attack any country if you want to.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1138113]Gino, at the Great Lakes tournie are you guys having forms and continuous sparring competitions again. Last time I was there is was only San Shou and Shuai Ciao?[/QUOTE]
Yes we have everything form forms, weapon, push hands, continuous, Shuai Chiao and san shou.
Although we invite everyone from all styles and areas, no one outside of CMA comes to our event for Shuai Chiao or San Shou? Now why is that? Why is it that other styles don’t come? Do they feel they can not modify their technique for our competition? Are they scared they will see how bad they really are?
Any other CMA tournament promoters see this?
ginosifu
I’ve had this discussion before, and really if there was that big a demand for San Shou from non CMA corners there’d be a thriving shootboxing scene, which there clearly isn’t.
i think bawang has a good idea. fighting with bare knuckles on raised platform. with the world of mma, the only way to compete with that to draw a lot of attention is to up the ante so to speak. no pads at all, nice and hardcore. that will up the attention and the spectators, and when that demand for good solid NHB striking with throws is made, the people will flock to fight, just like ufc.
most people would much rather watch a couple of guys with tiny gloves beat each other bloody than some padded up guys with headgear on in a boxing ring.
get rid of the gloves, get rid of the ropes. then you will see people screaming for blood. once the masses scream for blood, you are there.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1138127]i think bawang has a good idea. fighting with bare knuckles on raised platform. with the world of mma, the only way to compete with that to draw a lot of attention is to up the ante so to speak. no pads at all, nice and hardcore. that will up the attention and the spectators, and when that demand for good solid NHB striking with throws is made, the people will flock to fight, just like ufc.
most people would much rather watch a couple of guys with tiny gloves beat each other bloody than some padded up guys with headgear on in a boxing ring.
get rid of the gloves, get rid of the ropes. then you will see people screaming for blood. once the masses scream for blood, you are there.[/QUOTE]
You make a valid point, Lucas.
The “problem” as the powers that be see it, is balancing realism with safety. And as a result of that, you’ll probably never see bare knuckles. But maybe a minimal glove.
An amalgum pro structure, encompassing the best of SanShou, KuoShu and SanDa rule sets, with minimal safety gear and maximum utility could fit the bill. But only IF all the red tape hurdles could be cleared, enough money was thrown in to draw calibre fighters AND you could actually get those fighters to wander over and give it a try.
Imagine a structure that allowed standup technique with hand, foot, elbow and knee… grappling, throwing AND submission IF skillfully applied within, say, 5 to 10 seconds of hitting the ground.
Now THAT is something I would both pay to see and come out of retirement to be a part of! 
It will be fun to have more than 2 fighters to fight in the ring at the same time that anybody is allowed to fight any others.
Imagine a structure that allowed standup technique with hand, foot, elbow and knee… grappling, throwing AND submission IF skillfully applied within, say, 5 to 10 seconds of hitting the ground.
sounds like a good format to me.
Although we invite everyone from all styles and areas, no one outside of CMA comes to our event for Shuai Chiao or San Shou? Now why is that? Why is it that other styles don’t come? Do they feel they can not modify their technique for our competition? Are they scared they will see how bad they really are?
haha I don’t think they are scared.
most people probably think it’s some kind of club thing honestly. Not understanding the elements involved probably is a factor. As Ironeagle stated some of it because of the traditional part of it. Some tournaments have a mandatory forms clause in them. If you don’t do forms you can’t compete. Not unheard of. people are always hesitant of the unknown. And most tournaments have an elites kind of feel to them. just my opinion.
Professional yes, amature? not sure…maybe we need amature, semi pro and pro as in MMA.
[QUOTE=Paul T England;1138243]Professional yes, amature? not sure…maybe we need amature, semi pro and pro as in MMA.[/QUOTE]
Interesting idea. Take this idea along with what Sifu Patterson said and it could be a decent format.
Amateur- Head gear, 12oz boxing gloves, shin guards, all Kung Fu and kickboxing techniques along with throws, sweeps, takedowns, pretty much the standard San Shou rules. Three two minute rounds.
Semi Pro- Head gear, small gloves to cover hands (MMA type), shin guards, all San Shou rules except when fighters hit the ground they have 30 seconds to submit or strike. Three three minute rounds.
Pro- No head gear or shin guards, small gloves to cover hands. All San Shou rules except when fighters hit the ground they have 1 minute to submit or strike. Two five minute rounds, three five minute rounds for title matches.
All matches take place on a Lei Tai. Also all elbows and knees for Semi Pro and Pro, and well as kicking a downed opponent in Pro (old Pride rule)
The other option is to cut the time down when the fight hits the ground. The current MMA rules heavily favor grapplers, whereas this would more heavily favor strikers. Could make for some entertaining fights!
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1138115]True, but why is it certain organizations try to keep other styles or competitors out. I personally feel it betters one as a martial artist to be able to test yourself against other styles.[/QUOTE]
“certain” organizations can blow me. lol
Essentially that issue is what is known as “the face game” and it is truly the number one most retarded aspect of traditional martial arts.
Let the face gamers have their circle jerk and carry on without them.
Their kung fu sucks anyway and their lineage is meaningless as tehy have tainted them with the face game and the art has degraded because of it.
screw those guys.
now, ask me how I really feel about it. 