Cheesy topic for a thread but it accurately describes my subject matter. Seriously speaking I was wondering what board members thought about the current rules of Kung fu competition fighting and whether or not they should be revised, for instance, along the lines of the unified rules of mixed martial arts?
Do board members think there is a disjunction between the way we train to fight in Chinese martial arts and the rules of competition? For example, in training many Chinese martial arts systems employ a range of techniques involving throws and projections but all the competition fighting Iâve seen uses kickboxing gloves. This immediately nullifies the ability of a Kung fu student to actually attempt to pull many of these techniques off in live combat.
By using the unified rules of MMA and ditching the big gloves for MMA gloves I think we would create a more beneficial environment in which to develop the fighting skills of Kung fu people. Just wanted to know what other people thought?
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116781]Cheesy topic for a thread but it accurately describes my subject matter. Seriously speaking I was wondering what board members thought about the current rules of Kung fu competition fighting and whether or not they should be revised, for instance, along the lines of the unified rules of mixed martial arts?
Do board members think there is a disjunction between the way we train to fight in Chinese martial arts and the rules of competition? For example, in training many Chinese martial arts systems employ a range of techniques involving throws and projections but all the competition fighting Iâve seen uses kickboxing gloves. This immediately nullifies the ability of a Kung fu student to actually attempt to pull many of these techniques off in live combat.
By using the unified rules of MMA and ditching the big gloves for MMA gloves I think we would create a more beneficial environment in which to develop the fighting skills of Kung fu people. Just wanted to know what other people thought?[/QUOTE]
I hear this.
San Shou is good, but it could be better.
UFC can get real boring real fast when itâs just rolling and looking for a choke out for 5 minutes. Seriously boring.
Itâs like when someone says do you like watching golf?
I say, no, but I enjoy playing it.
UFC style mma is like this. All too often teh fights are too short or too protracted with the man hugs. This means for every 20 fights, you get to see 1 thatâs actually not a bad fight.
I would like to see san shou with the option to G&P on a take down or throw and if a guy can get it going, then break it and let em try again.
[QUOTE=bawang;1116798]mma should have mma kata. then it becomes legitma.[/QUOTE]
I see what you did there.
But no Iâm not saying Kung fu competitions are not legit because theyâre not MMA. Iâm saying that there are lots of skills in Kung fu made difficult to impossible to test out in competition because of the rules.
Take a throw heavy style like Taijiquan. There are many moves in the Taijiquan techniques gallery that are just unfeasible to perform if you wear kickboxing gloves. This robs a serious Taijiquan student the chance to test how to apply these things in a real life situation. It would be like asking a wrestler to fight under K-1 rules.
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116804]
Take a throw heavy style like Taijiquan. [/QUOTE]
lol noe
fgdfgdg
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116804]There are many moves in the Taijiquan techniques gallery that are just unfeasible to perform if you wear kickboxing gloves. [/QUOTE]
the gloves hinder you from gently carressing your opponents forearm
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116804]Take a throw heavy style like Taijiquan. There are many moves in the Taijiquan techniques gallery that are just unfeasible to perform if you wear kickboxing gloves.[/QUOTE]
When you have gloves on, you cannot pull your opponent. Your monster grip will become useless. Thatâs definite a draw back.
When you have glove on, insted of using your hand to grab, you will use your arm to wrap. When you have developed the arm wrapping ability, you will find out that without gloves, your skill can be performed much better.
To change from non-gloves environment to gloves environment, itâs like to change from gi environment to no-gi environment, it will take some time to feel comfortable wth. After you have pasted that period of time, you will get benefit for the rest of your life. The reason is simple. If you can fight with only 70% of your ability with gloves, you will be able to fight 100% of your ability without gloves.
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116781]Cheesy topic for a thread but it accurately describes my subject matter. Seriously speaking I was wondering what board members thought about the current rules of Kung fu competition fighting and whether or not they should be revised, for instance, along the lines of the unified rules of mixed martial arts?
Do board members think there is a disjunction between the way we train to fight in Chinese martial arts and the rules of competition? For example, in training many Chinese martial arts systems employ a range of techniques involving throws and projections but all the competition fighting Iâve seen uses kickboxing gloves. This immediately nullifies the ability of a Kung fu student to actually attempt to pull many of these techniques off in live combat.
By using the unified rules of MMA and ditching the big gloves for MMA gloves I think we would create a more beneficial environment in which to develop the fighting skills of Kung fu people. Just wanted to know what other people thought?[/QUOTE]
You have to understand that San Shou tournaments and competitions are a minority when it comes to TCMA tournaments. For sparring competions it is normally point style or continuous sparring with very limited techniques allowed. You will find this much more than you will full contact San Shou. Also, I remember seeing a tournament in Wisconsin online that did Lei Tai matches with MMA style gloves and the face cages, (which suck) but that I felt was a step in the right direction.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1116813]Tai chi chuan needs a serious revisit to take it out of the hands of soft heads and give it back to wrestlers and takedown artists as intended.
right now itâs fluff. Itâs been ruined by years of wimps, weakness.
A martial art usurped by the meek and made weaker.
Itâs a weird thing.
Mind you, original Chen style looks like shaolin a lot.
qigong for health shouldnât be a ripped off martial art such as taichi has become.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SPJ;1116811]rules are actually more or less the same.
point sparring, you punch and kick and get points
just like karate/kumite or tae kwan do.
KO is allowed.
somehow, the wu lin da hui in PR china, there is no head shot. so KO is not possible.
there is a heavy chest protector under the garment,
so the rule sets favor throw. since no KO.
full contact
grappling and throws are possible.
currently
there are san shou rules and kuo shu rules in US.
I think GLW knows more.
â[/QUOTE]
Iâm not in the US so I canât really make an informed comment on what goes on there. From what I have seen of grappling in full contact Kung fu tournaments it would be impossible to repeat what Su Dong Chen shows here with kickboxing gloves on.
Its probably generally unfeasible to repeat much of what Su Dong Chen does but you get my point.
[QUOTE=Crosshandz;1116804]Take a throw heavy style like Taijiquan. [/QUOTE]
If you are a Taiji guy, it will be interest to try all your moves with 16 oz boxing gloves on. Here is 2 clips that throws are perform with gloves.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1116829]If you are a Taiji guy, it will be interest to try all your moves with 16 oz boxing gloves on.[/QUOTE]
In 1982 I was introduced to a fellow who taught âcombat tai chiâ
It was inessence a remodeling of the way tai chi was used.
full contact, full force pulls, throws, pushes, grabs, takedownsâŚpretty cool stuff.
since then, i donât give credo to tai chi as health exercises much, but i can respect it as any exercise is better than none and I see improvement in mobility with those seniors I know who have undertaken practice of it.
many taijiquan people dont even make a proper fist. they make an âoâ. they should worry about that before trying to punch things, or putting on gloves.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1116832]
full contact, full force pulls, throws, pushes, grabs, takedownsâŚpretty cool stuff.
[/QUOTE]
even david ross says this, but the truth is taijiquan is mostly punching. as a branch of the changquan and hongquan systems it strictly teaches techniques by form and 90% of techniques are punching and kicking
[QUOTE=bawang;1116833]many taijiquan people dont even make a proper fist. they make an âoâ. they should worry about that before trying to punch things, or putting on gloves.[/QUOTE]
In all fairness, there is little in the way of fist strikes and furthermore, there is in most every tai chi school NO cross training at all!
No mitts, no bags, no application training, no sparring full on or otherwise, no wrestling nothing, just the set, whichever set is being taught.
It is the saddest state of all the traditional chinese martial arts.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1116820]When you have gloves on, you cannot pull your opponent. Your monster grip will become useless. Thatâs definite a draw back.
When you have glove on, insted of using your hand to grab, you will use your arm to wrap. When you have developed the arm wrapping ability, you will find out that without gloves, your skill can be performed much better.
To change from non-gloves environment to gloves environment, itâs like to change from gi environment to no-gi environment, it will take some time to feel comfortable wth. After you have pasted that period of time, you will get benefit for the rest of your life. The reason is simple. If you can fight with only 70% of your ability with gloves, you will be able to fight 100% of your ability without gloves.[/QUOTE]
I see your point and given your ample experience in throwing I wonât dispute the logic there. However, whilst I agree that you can create workarounds to pull of many of the techniques the size of the glove itself would seem to become an obstacle when trying to do certain things and then there are techniques such as this Luo Dexiu hip toss that would remain unfeasible. Yes, hip toss can still be done with arms around the body but that position that he uses it from is effectively a no-go area cos of the glove.
Seriously speaking I was wondering what board members thought about the current rules of Kung fu competition fighting and whether or not they should be revised, for instance, along the lines of the unified rules of mixed martial arts?
