Hi,
Yes that Bagua clip is more what I’m looking for. Notice the smooth footwork, the lack of bouncinng on his toes, the sinking? The Bagua fighter didn’t use deep stances, but he also didn’t look like a kick boxer. THAT is Kung Fu. I have always liked Bagua. I dabbbled a little bit in it years ago, and I would someday like to return to it. I don’t think there is anyone close to me that really knows it though.
You notice how after the throw, the Bagua guy is repeatedly right there with his foot about to stomp the attackers head? See, this is a point I have been trying to make in the past about Kung Fu. Our ground fighting IS too brutal for the ring. In real life the attacker would have gotten his face smashed in wile he was still happlessly rolling on the ground. I don’t think your even allowed to do that in the UFC. Heck, at one point, it looks like the Bagua guy lost his balance a bit because he was trying to miss stomping on his head for safety’s sake. It’s actually harder to miss, that it is to actually go through and crush his head. I could just Imagine what those Baji guys would do if in that position, with all the foot stomping they do in training and all.
Anyway, if that had been in an actual Kuo Shuo fight, it would be perfect. Unfortunetly, the running from one end of the floor thing telagraphs too much, and sort of negates what I’m trying to do. Which is show real Kung Fu in real action, against a real competitive, resisting oppnenet, where it does not resort to the bouncy, bouncy up on your toes modern boxing/kick boxing footwork.
Heya if you look behind Mr Estioko at the guy in the pink shirt (required to assist in the competition)… thats me! I was one of the cornermen for that side… One of the biggest complaints about that fight was the mat. Someone had glossed/shalacked over the canvas to preserve the artwork and as a result it became VERY slick. It wasnt until deep into the show that they finally got some resin to put on the bottom of SOME (the Cung Li team didnt share the resin with the Jason Yee team lol) fighters feet. So as a result people were ice-skating out there as you saw in the fight mentioned above. Any footwork requiring copious amounts of traction would have ended up with you on your ass. Keep that in mind as you comment on the fight.
whoa!!! Marvin Perry, BORING… dude must not get out much or watches too many Jet Li movies… and lets not forget Perry is gigantic big while Pope is about 145lbs… so ofcourse… Pope is gonna have more freedom to move and be quicker in the ring…
Our ground fighting IS too brutal for the ring.
but at the same time its not like it cant be adjusted… I didn’t see the Bugua clip but you sadi it looked like the dude lost his balance trying not to stomp on the guy’s head… that COULD be adjusted to have hm just fall on top of his opponent… KF has a chice as to either be “deadly” or not… look at judo vs. jujitsu…
Yes that Bagua clip is more what I’m looking for. Notice the smooth footwork, the lack of bouncinng on his toes, the sinking? The Bagua fighter didn’t use deep stances, but he also didn’t look like a kick boxer. THAT is Kung Fu.
is that clip a demo or a ‘live’ situation???
Chen’s son Max is a monster…
Originally posted by Royal Dragon
[B]Hi,
Yes that Bagua clip is more what I’m looking for. Notice the smooth footwork, the lack of bouncinng on his toes, the sinking? The Bagua fighter didn’t use deep stances, but he also didn’t look like a kick boxer. THAT is Kung Fu.
You notice how after the throw, the Bagua guy is repeatedly right there with his foot about to stomp the attackers head? See, this is a point I have been trying to make in the past about Kung Fu. Our ground fighting IS too brutal for the ring. In real life the attacker would have gotten his face smashed in wile he was still happlessly rolling on the ground.
Anyway, if that had been in an actual Kuo Shuo fight, it would be perfect. [/B]
It wasn’t a fight. It was the guy and his student helping him to look good for demonstration purposes. That’s the reason it looked the way it did.
In real-life, a trained groundfighter (or most anyone for that matter) would not be be “happlessly rolling on the ground” like that. He would more likely be slapping on a heel hook.
How’s he going to do that? his foot was smashing his head almsot as fast as he landed. The only reason it was go’n THAT slow was because it was a demo. If it had been real, the guy would have been KO’d before he would have time to “Hook” as you say.
:rolleyes: yeah… you’re right techniques cant be adjusted to be made more safe… so there’s a bunch of Bugua training partners lying in a pile stomped out b’cuz of practicing deadly techniques
:rolleyes:
R.D.
I caught this one kind of late. Yes, I have some “non-public” footage you can come by and watch some time if you want. Sorry, you can’t tape it.
I do have some footage of myself doing Shuai Chiao demos that you can put on the net if you have the equipment. This is also “non-public” so you can’t have everything. But I had a good run where I chucked Lil Joe about 3-4 times that you can digitize.
ST… dude… we didn’t even go… some of us were nursing some injuries… u don’t know how heated I am about that… bad decisions… u know… but its along journey… next year… and I really really wanted to hang out with all the fitness chicks :mad:
I think that the guy playing the opponent against BKF was Sam Masisch (sp?)…so yes, indeed, he is not a trained ground fighter, but I do not think he is a student either…
If I heard well (my sound was bad), he was the winner of the tournament that year, and was asked to go against him…
Sure, the attacks were kind of telegraphed and obviously a little pulled back, nevertheless I think BKF did a very good job with his stuff…
WD, Yeah, I’d like to see it. I don’t know how I’d digitize it though. I still have to buy the card for that though. I have some other priorities right now, but as soon as I get it, I’ll come down, we can roll, and then chill with the VCR and something good to drink afterwards.
Marvin Perry is a kung fu guy who has done well in thai boxing then turned to san shou.
This statements lacks a molecule of truth.
Marvin was a kungfu guy who got bored to death because he wasn’t fighting anything but air, was led to Sanshou by his buddy Al Loriaux and was hooked ever since and has then added muay thai fighting to his ring credentials.
Where do you guys get your facts? The same place you got that kungfu was effective I’m guessing..
Where do you guys get your facts? The same place you got that kungfu was effective I’m guessing..
Well in that biog i see not 1 mention of the term thi boxing.
As for where i get my facts:
Last year I made a statment that M Perry was a kick boxer/thi boxer who is doing well in san shou.
I was corrected by a guy who trains with (or trains MP I forget…was it Sanshouguru?). Who pointed out to me that MPs back ground is in kung fu and that he never trained in Thai Boxing but did compete and do well.
So you could say that I get my information from the horses mouth. He also pointed out that Marvin Perry comes to browse this forum now and again.
ST is correct and I think he meant what Liokault said about his MT training. We train him for MT fights the same way we train him for Sanda fights, I just remind him when he picks me up over his head that he cannot do that in a MT fight, just the sweeps and simple throws.
I think ST has only been wrong about a San Shou fact a few times and then only slightly. From what I know about the facts.
As to Marvin’s movement ability;
He is a little clumsy in his day to day life sometimes but when he is fighting can stand like a mountain, disappear like a ghost, strike like a viper. He is a Super heavy weight in weight and power with the speed of a light weight. He is not always the most exciting fighter but when the average match has lasted about 90 seconds there is not much time to see the art of his movement.
As to people making the old “NHB guys are tougher” claim I will say this; Marvin would never presume he could beat an NHB guy at their rules but any NHB guy who want to challenge Marvin at Sanda or MT rules is more than welcome to.
Make no claims about another style until you have fought and won at that style I always say.
People who expect that, and train as if, real fighting will be like that clip are perfect examples of why some people train for years only to find that they can’t make their stuff work when the excrement hits the air circulation device.
