After much searching i have finally found some WT sparring clips:
http://www.meihua.ee/video/wt_udar.wmv
http://www.meihua.ee/video/clip01.wmv
Let me know what you guys think?
regards,
ironmonk.
crickets chirping
Ok, they start off with wing chun, then they all try to take it to the ground. i can understand wanting to be good on the ground, but why not emphasis the wing chun more.
Plus i don’t really know much about groundfighting… but most of that looks like monkeys bashing eachother.
on a side note. in the first one, when the two girls went at it, one of them imediatly tried to do the girly hair pull technique, which was funny… but then they wound up pretty much the same as the other fights.
Not impressed at all with the wing chun “moves” I saw…but I will say this much - those guys were not afraid of contact…and
some of the elbows, knees, takedowns, ground & pound, choke stuff, was “real”…in the sense that, though not pretty or technically smooth…it can definitely happen like that in the street.
“A” for effort.
I was impressed with the headguards, Where can them?
SWEET!!!
It doesn’t look pretty, but it shouldn’t look pretty. When matches are made evenly it tends to look sloppy.
Those guys rock- they probably are using a bit much contact for regular training, but they’re totally headed in a good direction. My take is that their dynamic balance is messed up- basically they have root and balance when stable in chi sao to some degree, but don’t bring that into motion, hence their fullcontact problems. The footwork didn’t bring the body into play well- arm and body were perpetually disconnected.
Even so, props to them for banging, excellent music (old Shamen?), and the difference in the skills of the guy in light blue trunks between first and second clip are huge. Those guys are gonna get good.
Where are they?
Andrew
Going to be good Andrew? They already ARE good. Certainly better than 99% of the ‘mouths’ on this here forum 
And yes that is what real fights look like. So any criticism of not seeing much wing chun is laughable. For anyone who say that, I dare you to show me a REAL fight/sparrign clip where you see “pretty or perfect” Wing Chun…tip; doesn’t exist. When two people fight for real, it looks like that.
And yes, it will most often go to the ground whether you want it to or not…such is combat…be prepared…or don’t lol.
Dhira,
better than most of the mouths here on the forum, yeah.
I think Colin, Matt, Louvel, and young Greg could hang with the best of those guys with minimal work, and with another 6 mos will be significantly slicker than them. And Jannis’s guys would slaughter them.
Later,
Andrew
Better than most I’ve seen at that level of intensity. Body mechanics could be tightened up some, but whose couldn’t. It isn’t easy under that kind of pressure.
Wish they didn’t rely so much on elbow “techniques” though, especially during times when there are other viable options. Despite the advantages, it also leaves them too open, vulnerable to disruption and control, and overcommitted, as did some overexterted strikes and knee shots at times. In these videos, those vulnerabilities often went unexploited, but a higher level opponent would have found and taken advantage.
I too give them a lot of credit. Most of them stayed together a lot better than some others I’ve seen under that kind of pressure. It’s easy to be an armchair critic.
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
Sweet- and they even have a little bit of knowledge of the ground game. Some guard work and mount escapes would have saved the bottom people from a lot of punishment, however.
As far as the elbows- The use of elbows from the mount are absolutely devastating. The people on the bottom wouldn’t have been able to do much exploiting of vulnerabilities, since, without the head gear, they would have had their faces split open. Any one of those elbows would have completely FUBAR’ed the person on the bottom- not to mention what those knees would have done to the guy who was side controlled.
Originally posted by Knifefighter
[B]Sweet- and they even have some knowledge of the ground game.
As far as the elbows- The use of elbows from the mount are absolutely devastating. The people on the bottom wouldn’t have been able to do much exploiting of vulnerabilities, since, without the head gear, they would have had their faces split open. Any one of those elbows would have completely FUBAR’ed the person on the bottom. [/B]
No doubt.
My comment was about more than just those from the mount. It sure is effective against someone who is covering. Still, presenting one’s elbows is a potential vulnerability against someone who trains to utilize it. Everything has both advantages and disadvantages. And everything has a season; in these cases with a cowering opponent it seemed to work out. A little tighter in some of the body mechanics, as before, and that might also help to minimize some of the potential, albeit unexploited vulnerabilities both standing and mounting.
Just some ideas and observations, not arguing. As I said, it’s easy to be the armchair critic. Besides, I recognize you as the better fighter, so I’m tapping out while I still can. 
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
The clips compare favorably to the scenes of the South Korean parliment today. 
While props to the site for posting such revealing clips, IMO it looks like their Wing Chun goes out the window when they hit the ground.
this one is interesting
http://www.wingtsuncantabria.com/descargas7.htm
not a sparring clip…
I’d like this guy a little better, good reference material for Ernie’s web site 
Originally posted by Grendel
[B]The clips compare favorably to the scenes of the South Korean parliment today.
While props to the site for posting such revealing clips, IMO it looks like their Wing Chun goes out the window when they hit the ground. [/B]
Offered as additional constructive suggestions. They could use some tightening up on their Wing Chun not just on the ground, but even when standing. Elbows fly too much in general; in an obvious effort for power, there are more pounding punches than Wing Chun punches, and leave too much open. This is a comment on mechanics and positioning, not speed. The paradox is that Wing Chun power goes out the window when we get greedy for muscle power.
At least on the ground, more “sticking” at least of a sort, control, and movement based on feeling can be observed at times. Maybe elbows-out pounding type of punches are a way to try and keep from seriously hurting each other too much in sparring? Though I doubt that is the reason behind them.
Also, standing footwork is mobile but unfortunately at the expense of stability and “settledness,” thus easier to upset and disabling them from a more settled and substantial kind of power. Kicks are higher than they need to be, and have the drawback of making the person dishing them out more vulnerable to upset. Too much effort to keep distance at times. One of the guys in black pants demonstrated more stability and calmness than the others. At times, I don’t know why they resorted to grappling.
The protective gear is a mixed blessing. Good thing they used it. Unfortunately, it also offers a false sense of protection in several respects.
Wing Chun goes out the window when greediness sets in. In those situations, I might (or might not) fare better in terms of staying with my Wing Chun. But were I of a mind to put myself in such a situation, I would almost certainly get the snot beat out of me, Wing Chun or no. More so since there was apparently no one refereeing, and I’ve got little heart for incidental maiming or murder of my training partners even for the sake of experience. Unfortunately, I’m not so skilled that I can simply control everyone at will. I’m still working on it though. 
In the chi sau clips, there was too much playing at hands, not enough real control or attention to disrupting the partner at the core, or protecting one’s own. Again, they could use some good coaching to help tighten up the body mechanics.
As before, it’s easy to be an armchair critic. At least they didn’t do as much ridiculous “technique sequence” stuff as I’ve seen in some other videos. If the goal is to build some aggressive fighting spirit quickly, they seem to be achieving that, with or without Wing Chun. Building exceptionally strong and functional foundation skills is a much slower go, and like many if not most of us, they have a long road ahead on that. Credits to them for sharing where they are at.
LOL @ yylee.
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
yylee:
Do we really have to comment on those two clips?
The first one was a dance and the second was against people who responded with nothing.
yylee
I’d like this guy a little better, good reference material for Ernie’s web site
in which way ?
i have seen some other video of that guy and he had some good body mechanics and balance unlike the sparring clips every thing was well, wobbly
god bless 'em for going at it but there balance was shaky at best
and no power in there shots at all , no control of distance or timing in the stand up
just walked towards each other like stick figures until one moved then they crash like cars head on ’ no footwork or angles ’
but when they hit the ground they seemed a bit better , to much wasted energy on powerless punches and hacking elbows , but one guy did have some nice knee shots
but these dudes looked like kids so that could be why they were lacking power and flow
but it comes back to wing chun against wing chun waste of time , to many bad habits will come out of it
once those guys leave the nest , they will tighten up
the first one is interesting because it reminds me of a footage I saw in a HK Kulo clip. Kind of wondering where these Chi Sau pattern come from.
The second one, just a little more body mechanics. Positive or negative, all good references. In fact, most of these demo clips, regardless of lineage, are always showing one guy dominating the others, are they not?
kj
In my books, as long as the force is pointing towards the opponents, elbow out or in is just a positioning aspect.
scince no one else will say it…
the hugging montage at the end was a bit creepy.
I think it’s a nice school, and a highly respectable effort on the part of the participants and the teacher. How I would suggest improvements is:
Too much WC vs. WC
Too much groundfighting. Engagement should be broken up when superiority OR neutrality has been cleary established. Needs more grappling on the ground, less repetitive head-pounding and covering up. Why not save those some of those headshots for standup fighting practice, instead of practicing the END of the encounter? Do these guys know how to bridge with their hips, how to Upa?
Needs more emphasis on footwork. I saw almost no footwork, WC or otherwise. No lateral movement.
No clinching in the stand up. My opinion of stand up fighting, is that it should be something more than a “straight punches and front kicks” competition at a fixed distance. IMO WC is more about finding a favorable angle to enter, and entering with structure. I favor clinching too, and followup moves. Please, teach your students about the clinch.
I think that these students could handle themselves well in the street and have a working knowledge of the art. That puts them in the top 10% of schools already.
Re: scince no one else will say it…
Originally posted by OdderMensch
[B]the hugging montage at the end was a bit creepy.
[/B]
I thought he was doing some Yee Kuen tree hugging stuff :), that’s why I find it interesting. Easily amazed I am, LOL!