https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ythWqde-c
Excellent maintenance of structure, frame, distance and movement in this clip, under unknown pressure in a potentially embarrassing situation. This is about the only clip I can find on the internet of ving tsun working in a way that doesn’t look stiff, predetermined, or easily beaten by a freely moving fighter. Good clip, great ving tsun. Anyone seen better?
It doesn’t look stiff & predetermined because you are not starting off from chi sau between student and teacher.
Not bad, I guess the good ol “1-2” is universal, 
Already been discussed here 2011 wants its slappy hands thread back lol
[QUOTE=CFT;1285625]It doesn’t look stiff & predetermined because you are not starting off from chi sau between student and teacher.[/QUOTE]
A recently posted clip is what got me thinking about how many wing chun clips there are that actually look credible on the entire internet. I think this group is about the only one that make it look as if it could really work. The closest thing to it is the Russians that smash each other in the face with head gear. They maybe look effective, if not all that nuanced and skilled. Everything else is clowing around with drills or terrible, weak looking free movement. That is a terrible average for wing chun as a martial art.
I think there is an element of starting in chi sau which makes the clips of many groups look bad. Although you can look at the chi sau that a group does and come to some conclusions about what else they are probably doing. But I think it is much more than that: when they start in free movement many groups look to establish contact or pre-determined drilling type movements. There are very few that can hold and feel comfortable with the basic wing chun structure, stepping and strategy while not looking like a robot. There are very few that can react to changing circumstances. And this goes for many different ving tsun groups too.
[QUOTE=Frost;1285643]Already been discussed here 2011 wants its slappy hands thread back lol[/QUOTE]
Find me a better wing chun clip.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1285640]Not bad, I guess the good ol “1-2” is universal, :D[/QUOTE]
Sure, but there is wing chun there too. It is a good clip. Nothing else comes close.
[QUOTE=guy b.;1285645]Find me a better wing chun clip.[/QUOTE]
Sure go see seans sparring clips on the other thread, they arr actually trying to hit each other in the head, or any of Aron brums fights for that matter
[QUOTE=guy b.;1285619]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ythWqde-c
Excellent maintenance of structure, frame, distance and movement in this clip, under unknown pressure in a potentially embarrassing situation. This is about the only clip I can find on the internet of ving tsun working in a way that doesn’t look stiff, predetermined, or easily beaten by a freely moving fighter. Good clip, great ving tsun. Anyone seen better?[/QUOTE]
I didn’t watch the second half yet, but for the first half, Jerry (the wing chun guy) did have good movement. Unfortunately most of it backwards as he was running away most of the time. While I give him props for doing this and agreeing to be filmed, it was clear he either didn’t know how to engage or was afraid too.
So, I wouldn’t really agree that this is was any demonstration of ‘maintaining’ wing chun distance, just maintaining distance. (and maybe points at lack of sparring experience and afraid of being hit. And maybe also not fully understanding what WC bridging is)
** watched the second guy, while very linear (which caused him to get turned several times), he did a much better job of engagement and not giving up space!
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1285649]Iit was clear he either didn’t know how to engage or was afraid too.
And maybe also not fully understanding what WC bridging is)[/QUOTE]
Chinese etiquette. This is a master of a branch of xing yi. He is not engaging out of politeness.
What is wing chun bridging? Show me a better clip.
[QUOTE=Frost;1285648]Sure go see seans sparring clips on the other thread, they arr actually trying to hit each other in the head, or any of Aron brums fights for that matter [/QUOTE]
Seans clip has problems and is what inspired me to post this clip. In Seans clip the guys want always to return to a familiar place or sequence. They cannot cope with free movement as Jerry does.
Alan Brum’s (as you call him) guys are freely moving but not doing wing chun.
Show me a better clip that is identifiably wing chun. Seans is a worse clip with less skill demonstrated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCC_cw5obR0
This clip is a better demonstration of free moving wing chun than Seans because the guys are genuinely moving freely (in the bits between ‘chi sau’) and not constrained by trying to get to a place they are comfortable. Even though footwork is poor it is one of the better examples of free moving wing chun on the whole of the internet. Jerry’s is better though because he is good and these guys are not.
Hey guy b,
I honestly don’t know what you’re referring to, because in my clips I show my students actually sparring (moving freely) against non-wing chun guys.
In this clip, for example, one of my students goes 12 rounds with two (experienced) friends from the local mma gym who are preparing for a competition:
https://www.facebook.com/sean.wood.9843/videos/10205459715308979/
And in the other youtube videos there are also long sequences of free sparring against opponents who are unconcerned with any type of face-saving etiquette (actually trying to knock your block off and/or take you down and submit you).
Now of course there are problems, both strategic and technical, that have to be ironed out in order to improve my student’s performance. But at least we are working on it in the “lab” of real, full-contact sparring against un-cooperative opponents.
[QUOTE=guy b.;1285651]Seans clip has problems and is what inspired me to post this clip. In Seans clip the guys want always to return to a familiar place or sequence. They cannot cope with free movement as Jerry does.
Alan Brum’s (as you call him) guys are freely moving but not doing wing chun.
Show me a better clip that is identifiably wing chun. Seans is a worse clip with less skill demonstrated.[/QUOTE]
Nope called him aron brum one of alans students 
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54031-Chu-Sau-Lei-Wing-Chun-student-Aaron-Baum-winning-10th-Legion-MMA-title
Any of his fights are better than this because his structure is tested against someone trying to hit him hard, As are Seans students, that you think this is a good clip under pressure when no shots are actually being thrown with intent speaks volumes
[QUOTE=Sean66;1285658]Hey guy b,
I honestly don’t know what you’re referring to, because in my clips I show my students actually sparring (moving freely) against non-wing chun guys.
In this clip, for example, one of my students goes 12 rounds with two (experienced) friends from the local mma gym who are preparing for a competition:
https://www.facebook.com/sean.wood.9843/videos/10205459715308979/
And in the other youtube videos there are also long sequences of free sparring against opponents who are unconcerned with any type of face-saving etiquette (actually trying to knock your block off and/or take you down and submit you).
Now of course there are problems, both strategic and technical, that have to be ironed out in order to improve my student’s performance. But at least we are working on it in the “lab” of real, full-contact sparring against un-cooperative opponents.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t worry too much Sean, the fact that he equates what is happening in this clip as being anything like what is going on in yours really speaks volumes about what he views as wing chun and actual contact work
[QUOTE=guy b.;1285619]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ythWqde-c
Excellent maintenance of structure, frame, distance and movement in this clip, under unknown pressure in a potentially embarrassing situation. This is about the only clip I can find on the internet of ving tsun working in a way that doesn’t look stiff, predetermined, or easily beaten by a freely moving fighter. Good clip, great ving tsun. Anyone seen better?[/QUOTE]
I didn’t see any “ving tsun working” in that video. You’ve got to be either a student of his or joking. He did absolutely nothing in that entire video except flinch, run away, and throw some one-off and reaching punches that overextended him, or just hugged when it got too close.
And I’ll tell you, I’ve been to his school in HK and I guarantee you neither he nor his classes do any sort of free sparring. All they do is play chi-sau/gwo-sau games. Whatever your opinion of what problems Sean’s students need to work on (which is the point of training), Jerry’s are doing nothing near the level of what is shown in Sean’s clips. I’m surprised at your opinion of this video.
[QUOTE=Frost;1285659]Any of his fights are better than this because his structure is tested against someone trying to hit him hard, As are Seans students, that you think this is a good clip under pressure when no shots are actually being thrown with intent speaks volumes[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Frost;1285661]I wouldn’t worry too much Sean, the fact that he equates what is happening in this clip as being anything like what is going on in yours really speaks volumes about what he views as wing chun and actual contact work[/QUOTE]
Volumes. Agreed.
Pressure testing is crucial to any MA that prides itself on being a “fighting system”.
There is simply no way around it.
Now, there are different types of pressure testing of course, ranging from light contact to full contact and same-system testing to cross-system testing.
It have been my experience that the more specialized a system is ( take southern mantis or wing chun for example) the more cross- system testing they require.
Why?
A few reasons but basically because the same-system testing is far to limited in those cases.
Allow me an example:
Boxing is all same-system testing of course, BUT because it is so natural and “easy to learn” because it is natural, the carry-over into real life scenarios and VS other systems works well enough.
The issue is with a specialized system, like WC, the carry over is less because it is NOT as “natural” as boxing.
Anyone that has done both knows exactly what I mean.
So, WC to be effective VS a different system needs to be pressure tested outside itself more.
This does NOT mean one stops doing WC, it means that the skill set developed when one trains WC VS WC needs to be developed differently to be used in WC VS BJJ or WC VS MMA or WC VS Muay Thai for example.
So, those clips of WC VS Xingi and other clips of WC VS other systems will have a very different look then any clip of WC VS WC and that is a GOOD thing.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1285663]I didn’t see any “ving tsun working” in that video. You’ve got to be either a student of his or joking. He did absolutely nothing in that entire video except flinch, run away, and throw some one-off and reaching punches that overextended him, or just hugged when it got too close.
And I’ll tell you, I’ve been to his school in HK and I guarantee you neither he nor his classes do any sort of free sparring. All they do is play chi-sau/gwo-sau games. Whatever your opinion of what problems Sean’s students need to work on (which is the point of training), Jerry’s are doing nothing near the level of what is shown in Sean’s clips. I’m surprised at your opinion of this video.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t the WC guy in the video a PBVT practitioner? Or does he train in a different vein of the WSL camp?
[QUOTE=wckf92;1285672]Isn’t the WC guy in the video a PBVT practitioner? Or does he train in a different vein of the WSL camp?[/QUOTE]
No. Vastly different, I would say.
To my knowledge, he was mainly a student of Cliff, but claims WSL direct because he may have done a little training at the school when he was like 10? I’m not so sure.