http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp
Toward the bottom
Yeah, I saw this. It’s garbage.
You’re just mad because of how simply and quickly they destroyed your beloved BJJ “superiority” I think that this just proves what we Kung Fu guys have been saying for a long time. Kung Fu is just too dangerous for the ring.
That’s exactly right WD! 
Merryprankster:
That move is garbage?
Try punching down at a TWC practitioner from the mount and see what happens!
That may work (like a million other things) simply because the person there has no idea how to mount. The guy on the bottom could probably sneeze him off.
If he was grapevined, pressing with his hips, smothering with his chest, controlling the head and basing with his arms alternating with elbows, punches, and what have you, the guy on the bottom would need technical knowledge of pin escapes.
This example though would be similar to a clip on a BJJ site showing how to counter a WCK fighter with punches. We’d be ROFLOAO. So, MP’s comments are understandable.
Actually, please disregard my previous post. I would very much prefer people try to punch exactly like that when they are in mount, and people try to escape exactly like that when they are mounted. (Just in case they one day become muggers in my 'hood).
DEFENDING AGAINST THE MOUNT
The mount defense against being grapevined, smothered with the chest, having one’s head controlled and then being subject to punches and elbows while alternate posting (basing) is going on - is a situation wherein much has already happened to the man on the ground BEFORE he makes his move to reverse the position - which would require a completely different type of defense…
but if one is simply mounted and then comes the punches raining down - the escape on the tape WILL WORK.
As regards allowing ALL of the first situation to develop BEFORE making a wrestling reversal along with a bridge and possibly a well placed gouge attack - into a hammerlock or a double wristlock (Catch style): well that’s the guy that I’d like to mount in my neighborhood - since he’s way too slow and inexperienced for his own good.
Victor,
Thanks, please see my previous post!
Best,
I dunno what would happen
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
[B]Merryprankster:
That move is garbage?
Try punching down at a TWC practitioner from the mount and see what happens! [/B]
But I’d put good money that the outcome wouldn’t be what I just saw in that clip.
Not meaning to be a pr***, but that technique’s just plain awful.
I’ve been working with that move on the tape (and variations of it) for two years now - and I had to watch that tape half a dozen times to see if it was being done correctly. I’ll give the performance on the tape a B-/C+ grade: there’s actually a few nuances that are either missing completely and/or hard to see on that particular video.
You have to see this move in person to understand that it can and will work against a rounded punch coming down from the mount - and a slight variation against a straight punch.
The next move AFTER the initial chuen sao (bil/bil) to get to the outside of his punching arm is completely missing from the tape - the second bil is supposed to become a grabbing lop at his wrist while the other wing chun hand is a gum sao (stiff-arm pak sao at his elbow) to unbalance him and make him post (base) with his other arm… but this move IS COMPLETLEY MISSING FROM THE TAPE.
All of this is supposed to be done before the roll over somersault (which was not performed all that well either)… and the final position AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY TAUGHT BY WILLIAM CHEUNG is really hard to understand by simply watching that video also…because it’s missing!
That’s all I can say about that video for now. Phil Redmond likes to allow many of his students (including intermediate students) to participate in his website photos and videos - WHICH IS A GOOD THING FOR THEIR MORALE…The downside is that sometimes the sharks in the waters will start circling around trying to smell blood if you do your website like that.
That’s life! What can I say? Phil does an overall excellent job with his students and his website.
Haymaker???
Sifu Parliti Wrote>
but if one is simply mounted and then comes the punches raining down - the escape on the tape WILL WORK.
only if the guy in the mount position keeps punching the ground next to the guy’s head that’s on the floor with haymakers???
I take it that what was on show was not the finished product??
Sheldon
Agreed, I liked very much the forms and Wooden man clips on that site, though I haven’t had a chance to look through all of the technique clips. Keep up the good work PR!
I think it is good that wing chun people are starting to incorporate ground fighting into there game. Will that work against a jujuitsu guy no way but it would probably work against an untrained fighter. If they keep up this type of training in the future they might have a well evolved ground game.
wiz cool c:
That’s exactly why I incorporate Catch-as-catch-can wrestling (and some jiu-jitsu) into my Wing Chun classes here in Brooklyn.
Many folks on this website and elsewhere are adding to their wing chun with grappling training - in today’s world it’s an absolute must.
Hi.
It’s garbage.
No control of the far side at all. His leg and arm are free to post to prevent the turn…if you even GET that far.
Your opponent is not going to conveniently fall flat on his face and will shift his weight to the near side bottom corner to counter the leg lift.
He’s not just going to let you get into a ball-and-chain like that either (as though you can just pass the leg over your head).
There is no disruption of the hips to set up this movement and counter the pressure of the top man.
This is what not sparring against people who know what they are doing produces - techniques with serious fundamental flaws that will get them mauled against somebody with some experience.
Ball and chain is a great control position though!
Quit trying to use fancy words to confuse everyone merryprankster. This clip shows that Wing Chun principles can be applied from the ground and actually create excellant variations of BJJ sweeps.
You also need to remember that this was just a demo. If it was real, they wuld have used a Bil jee to the eyes instead of a punch. How well is your BJJ going to work when your eyes have just been gouged out?
ugh.
i didn’t like any of that clip. neither person was trying at all. it looks like they had been doing that drill over and over for about 10 minutes and had begun to just go through the motions.
the guy on top was basically just letting himself be thrown to the floor. and the guy on the bottom had no substance behind his WC hands.
::edit::
it would be a lot easier to judge that clip if either person was trying, and hadn’t gotten to the “just going over the motions” point.
That clip was taken from a seminar. The two guys were trying to do a technique. The clip got thrown on the site to show the participants at the seminar, not to demonstrate any techinques. I was taping anybody that was there so they could see themselves later on.That’s why we did the seminar page. I still have many more short clips that I was going to put on the site, but we’re changing from Mpegs to Quicktime so all of the old mpegs are being replaced as you can see on the forms page. So the next time any of you visit the seminar page you might see lots of things that might not look like you think they should look. The clip was taken at the very beginning of the seminar, plus as Victor said, there was more than the clip showed.
While I will withhold judgment on the skill level of the demonstrators, regardless if there was “more shown,” this seems to lack some fundamental necessities, namely, control of posting limbs.
But perhaps the next set of clips will prove me wrong.