http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNmOUIK7bIM
Yes, he knows it’s coming, and yes it is telegraphed regardless… but still I like it. 
Footwork is the same as that used after the slant kick (the last kick) in our Chum Kiu form.
That’s not a hook.
Just saying.
better to step forwards instead of turning, hit with right hand and cover with tan or biu/man sau. For telegraphed swings/hooks I like to emphaiss hitting first. IMHO
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk
[QUOTE=Paul T England;1225985]better to step forwards instead of turning, hit with right hand and cover with tan or biu/man sau. For telegraphed swings/hooks I like to emphaiss hitting first. IMHO
Paul
www.moifa.co.uk[/QUOTE]
Agreed! Though he is stepping forward, forward and then shifting weight.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1225983]That’s not a hook.
Just saying.[/QUOTE]
Okay, telegraphed curving horizontal haymaker type thingy 
Edit: Plus, groovy Kung Fu sound effect
I have not seen anybody who can use his left Tan Shou to block a right “haymaker” yet. It’s possible to block it with your right Tan Shou if you also turn with your body. If you use your left arm to block it, that “haymaker” will go through your block and still hit your head. If his opponent spins his body by using the “stealing step” to delieve that “right” haymaker, not only his body is spinned out of his opponent’s incoming striking path, trying to block it with “left” arm is almost impossible. There are just too much body weight behind that powerful haymaker.
In the clip I posted his left hand is not blocking, simply ‘checking’. If he’d stood still, then he’d have to block - literally use his left hand to stop the blow… But that would not be very ‘Wing Tsunny’.
His step in, weight shift and strike is the counter - his left hand motion is a way of using fook sau, so controlling.
YKW is correct - tan vs. haymaker/hook won’t work most of the time if the puncher has any idea what he’s doing.
IMO, what’s shown in the clip is lucky timeframe fighting and will either simply not stop the ‘haymaker’ (agreed - not even close to a hook) and he’ll get hit by it when it crashes thru his no fwd energy check/‘block’, or he’ll get eaten up by the follow up cross from the other hand since he just leaned into that side.
Unfortunately, this is the problem with demos like this. The attacker isn’t really trying to take the defender’s head off, nor is he using any type of follow up attack that the defender has to worry about. Which usually leads to people believeing that this type of stuff actually works against agressive, high energy attacks - which most of the time it won’t (at least, not as shown here).
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1226064]YKW is correct - tan vs. haymaker/hook won’t work most of the time if the puncher has any idea what he’s doing.
IMO, what’s shown in the clip is lucky timeframe fighting and will either simply not stop the ‘haymaker’ (agreed - not even close to a hook) and he’ll get hit by it when it crashes thru his no fwd energy check/‘block’, or he’ll get eaten up by the follow up cross from the other hand since he just leaned into that side.
Unfortunately, this is the problem with demos like this. The attacker isn’t really trying to take the defender’s head off, nor is he using any type of follow up attack that the defender has to worry about. Which usually leads to people believeing that this type of stuff actually works against agressive, high energy attacks - which most of the time it won’t (at least, not as shown here).[/QUOTE]
For sure, it is a demo and there are inherent problems with this, by its very nature (which could be said for just about all demos).
For what it’s worth, I’ve used this when some idiot actually threw a punch like this at me - though he was more square on, so I’d argue he had more option to follow up with a second strike. In my case, I punched into the side of his neck. He wobbled to his side and then two guys jumped in to stop things escalating.
I have no idea of how skilled he was/wasn’t - so probably not a pro fighter
But it worked for me - which is the point, after all. 
Oh, and the whole thing was my fault. Talking to a friend as we walked to the bar, bumped into this guy and he dropped his drink down his jeans.
And no, I didn’t buy him another as I didn’t hang around. Went to another bar where I was more careful to watch where I was going
[QUOTE=BPWT;1226048]In the clip I posted his left hand is not blocking, simply ‘checking’. If he’d stood still, then he’d have to block - literally use his left hand to stop the blow… But that would not be very ‘Wing Tsunny’.
His step in, weight shift and strike is the counter - his left hand motion is a way of using fook sau, so controlling. :)[/QUOTE]
… freeze and slowly advance the frames, shows his fingers wrapped around the forearm, looks more like an lop sao to me.
Could be, I guess… on my phone I can’t slow it down, and at just 4 seconds…
But it doesn’t really matter, I suppose - the step and punch are really the key elements.
Your fook/lap doesn’t block/stop the attacker’s punch, your forward movement + punch does the work.
[QUOTE=BPWT;1226088]Could be, I guess… on my phone I can’t slow it down, and at just 4 seconds…
But it doesn’t really matter, I suppose - the step and punch are really the key elements.
Your fook/lap doesn’t block/stop the attacker’s punch, your forward movement + punch does the work.[/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------- Another one of those endless discussions.
Some opinions.
- It’s not a hook-it’s a telegraphed swing.
- Good wing chun is not about a specified bock against a specified attack.
3 Timing, stance, turning and stepping and the individual’s decisiveness matter. - there are huge differences on those items in wing chun development.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1226097]--------------------------------------------------- Another one of those endless discussions.
Some opinions.
- Good wing chun is not about a specified bock against a specified attack.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Though sometimes seeing the ‘technique’ is the starting point for talking about something. Alternatively we could see the clip via the ideas inside it. E.g. Attacking the weak side, moving into ‘empty’ space, borrowing force, attacking/maintaining center, etc.
[QUOTE=BPWT;1226088]Your fook/lap doesn’t block/stop the attacker’s punch, your forward movement + punch does the work.[/QUOTE]
I strongly suggest you to try this on your opponent as the following:
- Your opponent steps in and punches at your face.
- You spin your body to let your body to pull your arm with a haymaker (make sure that haymaker is going 45 degree downward).
If your
- right haymaker can knock your opponent’s body off balance, you give yourself a “+1”.
- your opponent’s jab can hit your face, you give yourself a “-1”.
After 20 tries, you will find out that you are probably on the positive side than on the negative side.
hook has more rotation on the lead foot with the arm following the movement and rotation of the body. this was a side step.
BPWT – The problem with this isn’t the technique, but the way it’s demonstrated.
First off, his footwork isn’t visible, since he’s shown from the waist up. You and I know how he’s stepping in and off-line, and rotating into the punch …because we train this footwork. I used in in WT with LT and a more aggressive, but analogous step in Escrima. It does work, if done right.
Secondly, the deflecting hand is a WT fook-sau. It’s almost like a palm-down tan sau… but in application a bit more extended, and energy is different, due to the fact that the elbow position is different. The TST guys do something similar, but call it dai-sau. I find it much more effective than a tan in this situation.
Thirdly, I hate it in these demos when they don’t show a good aggressive follow up. Nobody, even Mike Tyson in his prime could depend upon ending it with one punch. Yeah, it could happen, but what if you land your shot, and the other guy just takes it, tucks his head and keeps on coming?
So, I have no problem with the technique, but I do question the presentation.
Yes, completely agree Grumblegeezer. And I think this is why I am not agreeing with John - without seeing the WT guy’s footwork I think people easily miss that his body is not where it started from and so the punch is largely negated regardless of what the WT guy does with his left hand.
I tried explaining it by mentioning the specific Chum Kiu footwork, but this might also be different lineage to lineage.
Interestingly, I’ve seen the same ideas used in Japanese sword work too, against a cut coming in at the same angle.
Yep, thai boxers deflect hooks palm down when bare handed, so I don’t do it with a tan either, and don’t teach it with a tan before explaining the fook, waste of time.
I’ve got a few MMA guys coming at my place tonight, I’ll ask them to do combinations on me to have more live situations than in this video I shot earlier :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOHT2mZwMpg
If someone has special request for the video tonight, it will be welcomed !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER8s4cDMTGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-umCbT-Iik
fook palm down, for the ones reluctant to work muay boran AND Wing Chun, pretty much the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E8Lrm1J3c8
Elbows in boran.