About two years ago a group of us agreed that we would re-examine the way we trained Wing Chun. We started exchanging ideas on, inter alia, conditioning drills and formats for pressure testing.
Recently, one of our members entered an amateur boxing fight. He is the one wearing BLUE:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KRtSB103mG8
Suki Gosal
So your Wing Chun guy learned how to box and decently won an amateur bout? 
Don’t get me wrong, I love boxing.. but he only used boxing. Jab, cross, hook, uppercut, etc. and slip, weave, boxing stance, boxing footwork.. If you guys honestly spent a ton of time re-evaluating your training methods.. it’d have been far better to just go down to the local boxing gym
Your guy is a decent enough boxer… theres no wing chun in that video… I mean, he doesn’t need to pak sao punch or tan sao or bong sao or whatever - But theres also no evidence of any refined abilities such as bridging, body structure, controlling the opponents center, or protecting your own…
All I saw was a boxer, boxing.
Am I to believe that mobility and effective punching methods are the exclusive domain of western boxing? And I suppose one would have you believe the forms couldn’t possibly contain a blueprint for punches that have hooking and uppercut motions?
And to suggest that one couldn’t ‘see’ body structure therefore it could not possibly exist is hardly a compelling suggestion that it wasn’t being used. And of course, the cliches continue with “controlling the opponents center”.
Suki
wing chun has jab, cross, and uppercut. no hook though–too slow thats for hung gar guys
aren’t there hook punches in the Biu Jee form?
[QUOTE=TenTigers;896340]aren’t there hook punches in the Biu Jee form?[/QUOTE]
Hello,
Yes there are and they are more akin to a true hook not the loping kind you see in movies. 
Close to the body not coming from outer space.
I don’t understand the opening of this thread considering wing chun and boxing, but Ten Tiger you are very much correct when it comes to ‘bil jee’, in fact the “hook punch” is introduce in the 8 basic punches of the system (SLT) and the lifting punch as well…
Ali Rahim.
[QUOTE=clam61;896326]wing chun has jab, cross, and uppercut. no hook though–too slow thats for hung gar guys :)[/QUOTE]
There is a hook punch in Wing Chun.
yep-thought so.
Oh, and btw-clam…I agree that a large, swinging punch is slower in comparrison to short strikes, which is why a well-trained fighter sets up his strikes, and uses proper angles and range.
In case you didn’t realize, Hung-Ga was originally a short bridging system , and added the larger swinging strikes (from Wong Yun-Lum’s Hop-Ga) later on in its development.
You need to understand a technique, in order to use it.
Case in point-many beginner Wing Chun students(or casual observers) try to throw chain punches from outside the proper range, fail, and then conclude that they are inneffective.
In the words of Duncan Leung-“Once I’m in your horse, you can’t stop me.”
It might be better to say that SOME branches have a hook punch and some do not…
Ed Seas
it might be better still to say that some teachers, or practitioners have a hook punch, and some do not.
Years ago, while giving a seminar at a forme Sifu’s school, Sifu Robert Chu was asked,“Why aren’t there claws in Wing Chun?”
Sifu Chu then demonstrated the huen sao and closing of the hand section of Siu Lim Tau, but emphasized the closing, showing a distinct claw and grabbing motion, and said,“Who says there are no claws?”
I have since seen others do this, and also others who do not.
Your Gung-Fu depends on what you have been given, and where you take it.
edseas 2 sez:
It might be better to say that SOME branches have a hook punch and some do not…
True dat. Another example of why generalizations about wing chun often miss the target.
The differences often seem to outweigh the similarities.
joy chaudhuri
Hook Punch -
Our teeny tiny little branch doesn’t have a hook punch in its arsenal. We practice myriad defenses/offenses against said technique but our particular interpretation dictates that we don’t use such a technique in practice for various reasons but we respect those who do.
FWIW, we hardly ever use pak sao and, by choice, would choose other techniques over pak dar if possible/available.
Ed Seas;)
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;896399]It might be better to say that SOME branches have a hook punch and some do not…
True dat. Another example of why generalizations about wing chun often miss the target.
The differences often seem to outweigh the similarities.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
In this case, yup!
I don’t have a hook punch, but in the BJ I have a Ginger Fist implored to fit into a ‘thin’ space and hit the kidney while returning to the centre.
Best,
K
Couch sez-
[QUOTE=couch;896418]In this case, yup!
I don’t have a hook punch, but in the BJ I have a Ginger Fist implored to fit into a ‘thin’ space and hit the kidney while returning to the centre.
Hi K- the issues of boxing and wc have spilled over to a different thread which is zig zagging
around.
Boxing and wing chun have quite different platforms for launching things that may superficially look similar. Wing chun IMHO requires far greater control of one’s mass than boxing- but when one develops the wing chun motions you can throw a hook or uppercut or a straight left or a straight right from a wing chun platform and the logic is there in the forms.
A straight wing chun punch when properly trained can beat a hook.The problem is that a lot of wing chunners I have seen have not really developed their basic wing chun punch.
Best,
J
****** warning some may be offended by this post ********
To be blunt to say wing chun doesn’t have a hook punch or doesn’t have this or that etc shows a lack of understanding of wing chun.
Wing chun forms are not rules. They do not contain all there is to the system. They do not set out the only way of doing things.
While everyone will say wing chun is conceptual not everyone understands what a concept is and what this means. There are several places in the forms where the hook concept may be seen and derived. Chum kui has no backward step. Does this mean you can never step backward? Of course the weapons have backward steps. Does this mean you can only step back after you have learned the weapons?
When 2 students asked Yip Man who was doing the correct tan sau his answer was both. A perfect tan sau that fails to stop a punch and you lose your teeth isn’t so good. A horrible looking tan sau that stops the punch would be the perfect tan sau in the instance.
There are no set rules only concepts to be adopted to the situation.
wing chun has jab, cross, and uppercut. no hook though
You really don’t like those hooks, do you?
If your BJ has the circular elbow strikes, then it also has the mechanics of a hook punch.
****** warning some may be offended by this post ********
IMO it was an excellent post.
[QUOTE=hunt1;896543]****** warning some may be offended by this post ********
To be blunt to say wing chun doesn’t have a hook punch or doesn’t have this or that etc shows a lack of understanding of wing chun.
Wing chun forms are not rules. They do not contain all there is to the system. They do not set out the only way of doing things.
While everyone will say wing chun is conceptual not everyone understands what a concept is and what this means. There are several places in the forms where the hook concept may be seen and derived. Chum kui has no backward step. Does this mean you can never step backward? Of course the weapons have backward steps. Does this mean you can only step back after you have learned the weapons?
When 2 students asked Yip Man who was doing the correct tan sau his answer was both. A perfect tan sau that fails to stop a punch and you lose your teeth isn’t so good. A horrible looking tan sau that stops the punch would be the perfect tan sau in the instance.
There are no set rules only concepts to be adopted to the situation.[/QUOTE]
Probably one of the best posts in a long while here, thanks Hunt:) People will only see what they WANT to see of something. Guess why? Because it validates their wants or needs, another word one can use here is motivation. With MMA taking root in the MA world, technique has become the buzz word, so since everyone is on that band wagon, this is what they see. Of course WC has technique, this is the physical application of the concept and priniples, but it is not exactly applied the way it is practiced. Why is this? In practice we are perfecting a skill or physical attribute in a somewhat perfect environment, for the purpose of gaining efficiency, power, structure, timing, aim etc.. in our combative movements. If you do not practice something perfectly when there is little to no pressure, then how the he!! are you going to be able to use any of it effectively in application? Like Hunt said, what some may consider a lousy tan sau, may be just what is need for the situation at hand, as long as you are not getting hit and beaten, you have used the training effectively. My new definition of Economy of Motion, is using only the littlest amount of the training that you need to overcome and succeed in the situation at hand. Like Sifu Lam once told me, WC is a lazy man’s Martial Art, this saying has nothing to do with the effort one is putting into his training, but rather how one uses his training when in combat.
James
[QUOTE=TenTigers;896383]yep-thought so.
Oh, and btw-clam…I agree that a large, swinging punch is slower in comparrison to short strikes, which is why a well-trained fighter sets up his strikes, and uses proper angles and range.
In case you didn’t realize, Hung-Ga was originally a short bridging system , and added the larger swinging strikes (from Wong Yun-Lum’s Hop-Ga) later on in its development.
You need to understand a technique, in order to use it.
Case in point-many beginner Wing Chun students(or casual observers) try to throw chain punches from outside the proper range, fail, and then conclude that they are inneffective.
In the words of Duncan Leung-“Once I’m in your horse, you can’t stop me.”[/QUOTE]
thank you for teaching me the history of hung gar. regardless, my statement was that hung gar has hook punches and that is true.
you are right that you need to set up a hook punch–i dont disagree with that.
and no, WC does not have hook punches like boxer hooks.
i agree with a lot of what u said, but WC is a set of movements, so you can objectively and definitively say whether a movement is or is not contained in the set of WC movements.
i do not consider WC a philosophy. perhaps you defined WC as a philosophy, and if you do i cant really argue against it i can only clarify your position and mine.
you are right WC forms are not rules, i dont mean that they are. but clearly the define a set of movements.
going by your thinking, WC could have jump spin kicks
[QUOTE=hunt1;896543]****** warning some may be offended by this post ********
To be blunt to say wing chun doesn’t have a hook punch or doesn’t have this or that etc shows a lack of understanding of wing chun.
Wing chun forms are not rules. They do not contain all there is to the system. They do not set out the only way of doing things.
While everyone will say wing chun is conceptual not everyone understands what a concept is and what this means. There are several places in the forms where the hook concept may be seen and derived. Chum kui has no backward step. Does this mean you can never step backward? Of course the weapons have backward steps. Does this mean you can only step back after you have learned the weapons?
When 2 students asked Yip Man who was doing the correct tan sau his answer was both. A perfect tan sau that fails to stop a punch and you lose your teeth isn’t so good. A horrible looking tan sau that stops the punch would be the perfect tan sau in the instance.
There are no set rules only concepts to be adopted to the situation.[/QUOTE]