Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
[B]Quote:
Who’s the one standing in front of the mirror???
Kid, go to get a hair cut if that helps you to see yourself better! [/B]
So what is Chan?
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
There are systems engineers, artists, physicists, chemists, butchers, bakers, historians, or whatever- no matter. Proof by authority is not very good science anyway. A model and its
applications have to stand or fall on it’s own merits. I gave my reasons for my views on HFY and the latest marketing push.
Reminds me of the early early claims and days of another lineage in more ways than one. Special transmission, original/unmodified,
hitherto secret but now generously revealed…
The old rule applies here too- caveat emptor. If ya like it go for it!!
Hendrik,
Some good points. I think it behooves anyone in a serious discussion to clearly differentiate a) what they believe as a matter of faith, b) what they believe based on reasonable interpretation of fact, and c) what is generally agreed upon as factual. Each is important, and we all likely have some opinions based on each, but the clarity helps the discussion (again, for example, I can claim they had a Ferarri F40 during the time of Ceaser, but unless I can unearth one buried beneath Julius’ summer cottage, and could lab test and prove its age, it will be hard to convince anyone of my claim).
Just as a general question, are there any systems which are generally agreed upon to be Chan in origin and design? Would Lohanquan be such a system, and if so, what criteria make it so? (so we could have something more substantial to compare).
RR
Joy - You forgot the candle-stick makers. Never forget the candle-stick makers.
RH - Of course. Yoda Yoda is infinitely more likeable than Jar-Jar Jar-Jar.
RR
Watch it now
Uno, dos, one, two, tres, quatro
Matty told Hatty about a thing she saw.
Had two big horns and a wooly jaw.
Wooly bully, wooly bully.
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.
Hatty told Matty, “Let’s don’t take no chance.
Let’s not be L-seven, come and learn to dance.”
Wooly bully, wooly bully
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.
Matty told Hatty, “That’s the thing to do.
Get you someone really to pull the wool with you.”
Wooly bully, wooly bully.
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.
Oftentimes gibberish and/or personal attacks translates directly into lack of knowledge/ability/inclination to have productive discussion, or points that the actual source spoon feeding “information” is not currently answering calls/emails, and that the former-VTAA board is not updating frequently enough anymore to allow baser multi-pseudonymed attacks.
Boba Jango…
Geez RR
Lighten up a bit, eh!
It’s all about balance…
AD
Tell the Yoda Yoda what’s outside of his box?
Btw, it’s good to see you back!
Thanks RH
But did i ever leave?
“WC teaches you to question your own pre-conceptions and of others - blind acceptance or absolutism in life always ends in tears IMHO”
It is a very good and valid point but I think “WC” in this instant can be replaced with anything one pursues with passion and interest.
AD:
Funny song wooly bully. Had a special meaning for me.
There was a special awesome great champion Alaskan Malamute named
Wooly Bully. Malamutes dont have horns but have two very erect
triangular shaped ears that look like Batman’s.
Joy
For me, it’s just music to surf by!
Do ya like dags?
AD
Doggone right. They can teach you a lot about human behavior
and they have contributed much to the English language.
I wont bore you with a list of their contributions.
I guess this is about the connection between MA and Religion
The way I see it, there are always elements of myth and of history in our stories. Is WCK a Chan from inception? Does Tan Sao Ng have a direct connection to WCK? These are subjects intelligent, professional adults will debate and have differences of opinions on. But beyond that, they have the power of story, of romance and legend. In the old days, as now, arts needed to survive and those who passed on the arts needed hooks to do so. Then, like now, the better the story the more desirable the art and the fuller the rice bowl.
Why can’t there a connection between the two.
The Knights Templar, they were Warrior Monks too.
Hopefully I’m not completely off track here,just trying to make sense of the thread.
Geezer
I don’t really think there is a point to this thread. It’s all doggerel, quips, and star wars messages, whilst Hendrik keeps trying to be serious. So, hey, I’ll add in some lidderachoor…from the poet laureate, ok? Ah, whatever…
Shoveling Snow with Buddha
In the usual iconography of the temple or the local Wok
you would never see him doing such a thing,
tossing the dry snow over the mountain
of his bare, round shoulder,
his hair tied in a knot,
a model of concentration.
Sitting is more his speed, if that is the word
for what he does, or does not do.
Even the season is wrong for him.
In all his manifestations, is it not warm and slightly humid?
Is this not implied by his serene expression,
that smile so wide it wraps itself around the waist of the universe?
But here we are, working our way down the driveway,
one shovelful at a time.
We toss the light powder into the clear air.
We feel the cold mist on our faces.
And with every heave we disappear
and become lost to each other
in these sudden clouds of our own making,
these fountain-bursts of snow.
This is so much better than a sermon in church,
I say out loud, but Buddha keeps on shoveling.
This is the true religion, the religion of snow,
and sunlight and winter geese barking in the sky,
I say, but he is too busy to hear me.
He has thrown himself into shoveling snow
as if it were the purpose of existence
as if the sign of a perfect life were a clear driveway
you could back the car down easily
and drive off into the vanities of the world
with a broken heater fan and a song on the radio.
All morning long we work side by side,
me with my commentary
and he inside the generous pocket of his silence,
until the hour is nearly noon
and the snow is piled high all around us;
then, I hear him speak.
After this, he asks,
can we go inside and play cards?
Certainly, I reply, and I will heat some milk
and bring cups of hot chocolate to the table
while you shuffle the deck,
and our boots stand dripping by the door.
Aaah, says the Buddha, lifting his eyes
and leaning for a moment on his shovel
before he drives the thin blade again
deep into the glittering white snow.
This is a clear example of a lack of experience!
So from what I’m reading here it is clear that there are those that have experienced and have not experienced Chi Sim and Hung Fa Yi enough to realize the connection to Chan. I find that alot of WCK lineages connect one way or another to Shoulin. whether it be the Ng Moy story or an extensive connection directly to the Wing Chun Tong. It is clear that some seem to be urged to deny two lineages that give direct and clear connection in philosophy, approach and essence. If these people have the resources to find out more and choose not to it is not our burden. Hendrick, you seem to claim to be such an expert on what is and what is not Chan. could you please enlighten us all with a brief intro to Chan? (in laymens terms because some of us will not understand.) could you also help us understand where you think Chi Sim and HFY came from!
Rene- could you also tell us your theory as to where HFY came from? If not from where it’s lineage tells us? I think it would be interesting as well for you to tell us where you think Chi Sim came from and could you also explain coincidences in the historys!
I’m very interested in what you guys think on this subject. I’m very interested in how this thread started to ignore the existance of these two systems and ignoring Chi Sim explanation to it’s connection to Shaolin.
Saat Geng Sau
What Chango no song? I’m disappointed.
I also would like to hear what Hendrick’s interpretation of Chan is. Perhaps it will enable us to see why he cannot make the connection to Wing Chun. I see Chan as a tool for dispelling illusions in life that distort our perception of reality. With this point of view the connection to combat is clear. Because in combat we are confronting reality and illusions are dispelled.
Mike
"Hendrick, you seem to claim to be such an expert on what is and what is not Chan. "
'Claim to be such an expert …"? HS
"could you please enlighten us all with a brief intro to Chan? (in laymens terms because some of us will not understand.) "
Since you wrote
“So from what I’m reading here it is clear that there are those that have experienced and have not experienced Chi Sim and Hung Fa Yi enough to realize the connection to Chan.”
It is better for those who have experienced to enlighten all of us. HS
"could you also help us understand where you think Chi Sim and HFY came from! "
You seems to have asked the wrong guy. HS