My point is that what you see in the vid that seems to closely resemble elements of wing chun striking and defensive arm positioning is about all you’d ever see in military training that resembles wing chun.
And it’s there because the specialty mode of the training is called CQD (close quarter defense).
That’s it.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;953276]My point is that what you see in the vid that seems to closely resemble elements of wing chun striking and defensive arm positioning is about all you’d ever see in military training that resembles wing chun.
And it’s there because the specialty mode of the training is called CQD (close quarter defense).
That’s it.[/QUOTE]
Gottcha.
the black kokar system the sealS use look EXACTLY like wing chun
Do you have a link to a vid of this?
[QUOTE=goju;953283]the black kokar system the sealS use look EXACTLY like wing chun[/QUOTE]
Which Team?
You know, Paul (sanjuro)…
Because almost all real life encounters will go to close quarters very quickly, so that you don’t see really that much footwork, lateral movement, feinting, jabs, etc…wing chun is better suited for a street environment than ring fighting. It’s primarily a short range go-get-him striking system. So I can see how some elements of wing chun might appeal to the military trainers who did this CQD vid.
That said, I don’t mean to infer that wing chun practitioners are more prepared for street combat than a boxer, kickboxer, wrestler, whoever. True preparation requires the kinds of training methods and regimen that wing chun has, for the most part, never been famous for.
Just commenting on the system itself.
I often wonder what WC would be IF people trained it like MT or MMA, I assume it would look like what Alan’s guys do because that is what they do.
At the same time I don’t think anyone looking at them fighting would say “Hey, that is WC”, know what I mean?
Yes I do know what you mean. But I also think that while Alan Orr and his guys are touching some strong surface of what can be done with wing chun, there’s more to wing chun that could work, imo, in nhb/mma, than what Alan and his guys are doing.
The wing chun that I see from Alan and his guys is the strong body alignment/structure, the forward pressure when the opportunity is there, and protection of the centerline by the way their hands and arms are positioned. I also like the fact that they’re throwing power shots without regard for a strict “elbows-down-and-in” mentality.
But I also believe there’s more wing chun that can work by way of some specific techniques (pak, lop, bil, garn, bong, etc.) and some other wing chun blindside strategy.
what do you mean “trained it like MT or MMA”? You mean train more seriously and less recreationally?
i don’t think it would necessarily look like Alan’s guys.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;953307]Yes I do know what you mean. But I also think that while Alan Orr and his guys are touching some strong surface of what can be done with wing chun, there’s more to wing chun that could work, imo, in nhb/mma, than what Alan and his guys are doing.
The wing chun that I see from Alan and his guys is the strong body alignment/structure, the forward pressure when the opportunity is there, and protection of the centerline by the way their hands and arms are positioned. I also like the fact that they’re throwing power shots without regard for a strict “elbows-down-and-in” mentality.
But I also believe there’s more wing chun that can work by way of some specific techniques (pak, lop, bil, garn, bong, etc.) and some other wing chun blindside strategy.[/QUOTE]
You know, from my investigation, all good WC uses the blindside theory/concept. I just recently watched Alan vids, and he uses the blindside concept all the time, whether in x arm or parallel positioning (excellent videos by the way, I recommend them). I see it in WSL and Gary Lam WC as well. Also, techniques will come out when needed, but like chin na stuff, it is not planned to use a biu, pak, lop or whatever, the key thing is to hit, if a bridge has developed then that is even better for us, as we should dominate while in contacted striking situations.
James
w th wing chun in competitive environments the ony things thats hard about bringing it to there is not how much of wing chun cant be used because its ineffective but because a lot of the techniques are illegal
look at wing chun or actually most asian styles for that matter we dont fight “fair” in the sense. a lot of our technique involve stop kickin the knee joint (illegal in competion) arm breaks( illegal in competion) groin and eye attacks (illegal in competion)
its hard for a tma stylist to adapt his style to a ring or cage because they werent designed to do that
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;953285]Which Team?[/QUOTE]
ill try to find some pics of it and stuff i first saw it about five years ago
If your interested in a peek at the NZ SAS CQB vs USA CQC CQD check out this clip from a Doco here…
About 3 mins in you get a good peek at the surface of CQB, wicked Doco series even though im somewhat bias.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OFcMM5KxcM
Ive had the bennifit of experiencing alot of the techs through people i know and there are many similarities in strategy and mechanics of VT even though the training is vastly different. Its brutal but effective and what you see is rather tame for TV.
DREW
[QUOTE=Sihing73;953227]Could you kindly point me in the direction showing your 7-3 record?[/QUOTE]
Dave,
I’ll do one better than that. I’ll post clips of the fights after you’ve posted the clips of you going full contact against resisisting opponents.
Oh, wait a minute… since you’ve never gone full out against resisting opponents and never will, I guess I won’t be able to do that.
Ah yeah, regardless what Dale posts - liked or not - giving him S h i t about his 7 -3 record vs someones non existent record is just plain clutching at straws :o
Im undefeated - im 0 - 0 LOL
DREW
the thing is. his record is used as the pedestal upon which he uses to look down on others.
so why not post vids of the fights unless there are some reservations…which im thinking there are
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;953334]Dave,
I’ll do one better than that. I’ll post clips of the fights after you’ve posted the clips of you going full contact against resisisting opponents.
Oh, wait a minute… since you’ve never gone full out against resisting opponents and never will, I guess I won’t be able to do that.[/QUOTE]
Sorry Dale, unlike you I have never tried to put everyone who does not do things my way down and puff myself up like some authority.
I have no interest in competing, already said that, most of my fights were several years ago and I tend to not go looking for trouble so, alas no video, unless you want to get together, I’d be more than happy to video that meeting and it could be posted on youtube. But we all know that will never happen either :rolleyes:
Sorry but just as you feel I am a BS no experience fantasy fighter, etc I tend to feel kind of sorry for you.
I mean after all, you had a few fights and really did not do all that well, plus your fights were most likely against other scrubs with no real skill. If you really had a 7-3 record you would have no problem point in that direction to prove you at least did something.
Also, as to your training with Rangers and Seals, it is hardly likely that some nobody like you would even be included in any type of official training program. Sorry to say it but you just are not that good to be a part of any type of Elite Military Training Program.
Seems to me that you make a lot of big claims but when it comes time for you to back them up you sort of choke up. Now me on the other hand never made any big claims to being a street fighting champion, I simply posted some experiences I had which you chose not to believe, and I am fine with that.
As I once told an old girlfriend who accused me of cheating on her: her believing it or not believing it neither made it true or false. I rolled over and went to sleep, she was kind of mad at that…and Dale to be honest you can believe what you want, it makes little difference to me as your opinions are not relevant to what I may or may not have done. On the other hand if I had a PRO FIGHT record and was questioned on it, I would have no problem posting the proof.
The only reason I even opted to post concerning you was your complete disregard for anyone who does not do as you do and the constant putting down of an art which, to be blunt, you were not intelligent enough to grasp and make work. Instead you gravitated to BJJ, which is fine and I am glad you found your niche. Too bad you were not good enough with that art to estalbish any type of viable, or impressive record.
[QUOTE=Pacman;953338]the thing is. his record is used as the pedestal upon which he uses to look down on others.
so why not post vids of the fights unless there are some reservations…which im thinking there are[/QUOTE]
if he was a great fighter hed be well known end of story
[QUOTE=goju;953324]w th wing chun in competitive environments the ony things thats hard about bringing it to there is not how much of wing chun cant be used because its ineffective but because a lot of the techniques are illegal
look at wing chun or actually most asian styles for that matter we dont fight “fair” in the sense. a lot of our technique involve stop kickin the knee joint (illegal in competion) arm breaks( illegal in competion) groin and eye attacks (illegal in competion)
its hard for a tma stylist to adapt his style to a ring or cage because they werent designed to do that[/QUOTE]
I have had the previlage to fight a few WC under no-rules back in the 90’s when I was under Nelson Chan and the UFC was making its mark, all those things were legal and none of them made any difference.
Of course I was the better fighter, more experinced and more well rounded as a MA, nevertheless my opponents were able to do whatever they wanted and while they tried, “dirty tactics” don’t fair well VS superiour technique, skill and ability.
As fro my background, it was ALL TMA at that time, I only add BJJ and MT later.
[QUOTE=Pacman;953338]the thing is. his record is used as the pedestal upon which he uses to look down on others.
so why not post vids of the fights unless there are some reservations…which im thinking there are[/QUOTE]
There are no reservations, Dale has ZERO to prove to anyone, those of us who have been here long enough know that Dale talks the talks and he walks the walk.
I have seen his clips, grappling, MMA and stick fighting and I have also been told by those I have a great respect for that the man knows his ****.
He’s an original Dog Brother for pete’s sake !
Just that alone puts him in a class all his own on this forum.