After countless time spent researching, experimenting, and sacrificing chickens, I was finally able to rip the video segment from the DVD Ultimatewingchun gave me. Not only did his DVR put it in a non-standard DVD format, but the video file container, the video codec and the audio codec were all also non-standard.
Without further commentary, here is the relevant segment from the documentary all nice and clean and trim:
Good job Tom… Thanks for the effort.. 
Looks like WC two-line defense to me.
Although some strands of WC teach that the maan sau should rest against the chest or be placed near it. The WC that I study and as well as some others teach that the maan sau be forward like this for structural strength and increased reaction time.
People have been using and dual hand ''active fence ‘’ in combat and punching with vertical fist since
Roman
(0-22 A.D.)[ time fron picture posted ]
nothing new or amazing way before WC was a swiming sper m cell in history’s nut sack 
Sure enough… I’m aware of your point. But imo the centerline focus here is quite substantial… ie. the placement of both hands strictly on the self-centerline, the hand positioning, as well as the consistent centerline A->B targeting of the opponent strategy found in these clips is enough to convince me it’s WC practices in action.
I can definitely see what Victor is talking about.
Unfortunately the very first “wing chun chain punch” scene was very dark - especially the way it came out on the Youtube vid…but I rewatched it on vhs last night in slow motion - and there’s no doubt that he was vertical fist, elbows in chain punching…as he was for a brief second or two on the second “wing chun” portion of the vid - but the first one (against 2 opponents) was even more obvious because more punches were thrown).
For those who still don’t believe that - I recommend getting in touch with the Discovery Channel and see about getting a copy of the vid, which is entitled:
“SPECIAL OPERATIONS: AMERICA’S SECRET SOLDIERS.”
Also keep in mind that Duane Dieter, who you saw on the vid and who’s credited with coming up with the CQD (Close Quarter Defense) system for the SPECIAL OPS, has wing chun as part of his background.
So I really don’t think he got all those “wing chun looking moves” from 2000 year old Greek Pankration…:rolleyes: 
(He looks too young for that. )
P.S.- Great job, Tom…and thanks.
ha-ha Vic ,
I’m not even in the discussion [ when I trained with VU there were a few seal guys there and they were doing straight blast training ] so military guys and some core WC concepts are nothing new in my world .
I just think it’s funny when people jump on the wing chun band wagon , and then toss in the ''well in my family we do it like this and the other guys are 2 degrees to the left of the big toe ‘’ that $hit cracks me up , protractor kung fu rocks !
people have been sticking there hands in front of there face since the beginning of time , hell I guess marching band drummers are the kings of the fast center line concept hahaha
Ernie,
My post was only meant to be considerate of the differences present in other WC family styles and not lump them all together in my post.
“protractor kung-fu” :eek: nice one…
Didn’t know the shortest distance between two points bothered you so much…
isn’t ''on paper fu ‘’ a wonderful thing !
add in the reality of emotional choas , broken rythem , elevation and angle change with fakes , and that darn striaght line turns into a paranoid scribble 
seen many a wing chun robot trip over it’s on feet and the CPU freeze up haha:eek:
Looks like Southern Mantis too ME, mixed in with a spice of Baqua, can’t you all see it?
I thought it was nijitsu with all the darkness and camo.
Why is this not Wing Chun?
Suppose for a moment, in the minds of the people in the clip, they really were doing Wing Chun.
It’s irrelevant.
Yes, that’s right: What they are thinking is irrelevant. However, what would be relevant is if the people in the clip used the same methodology of Wing Chun to learn the attributes expressed in the clip. But, a few people who are successful using “banzai!!!” punching and getting their hands up does not validate anything in different training methodology.
Birds fly by flapping their wings. Donning feathers and flapping your arms wildly will not get you off the ground regardless of the fact that’s how birds do it.
People with no training in Wing Chun manage to provide proof the effectiveness of a Wing Chun methodology? Not likely, IMO. And, I believe this holds true even if the rumors of the trainer in the clip is, or was at one point, a practitioner of a particular Wing Chun variant.
Systems are defined by the methodology used to develop the attributes necessary to express the skill. Just because something from the clip appears to have a familiar signature does not make it the same or even similar. Notwithstanding the clip giving us a chance encounter of such a signature (and any clues it may or may not give you as to whether you are on the right path), if you are using an entirely different methodology to get there, it is not a valid comparison. Such comparisons are, in fact, irrelevant.
To get back to the picture I posted in the other thread, there is hardly an accomplished practitioner of the Wing Chun style who would look it not say: “Ooh, TanDar and LinSiu DaiDar”. But the point is Felix Trinidad does not train Wing Chun; he trains boxing. He is not practicing SiuNimTao, ChumKiu, BilGee. He is not hitting a wooden dummy. He is not pairing up and playing ChiSao, ChernKiuSao, ChiGerk, or any other Wing Chun drill. So, unless you train like Felix Trinidad, there is no evidence to suggest the results of his methods (like what you see in the picture I’ve relinked here) are proof that your methods will produce the same results.
FWIW: I went to the same portion of the clip Victor is speaking of and ran it through every video filter I have to enhance the picture. There is just not enough resolution in my copy of the recording for me to make a 100% determination as to the fist orientation. However, I agree, given the upper body positioning, it is more likely than not vertical.
Yeah… the robots can’t flow up here either!
funny thing is if there heads were never filled with all kinds of concepts and drills and ‘’ the do it like this ‘’ sifu says stuff
they would probably flow better hahaha
hey man if i make it out to frisco we got to hang
For me, the trick is finding that balance between understanding of concepts and the aliveness of pure saan sau. I question everything… that’s just my nature.
Anyways, definitely… if you make it out here, it would be cool to hook-up. That is if this **** global warming doesn’t kill us first!
later!
Okay so we know the instructor has some WCK background and what a surprise the drills there <in the dark> appear to be WCK based.. No biggie, we had two or three or more SF guys in the old school and clearly they felt the system has merit..
If folks can’t see those scenes that are dark try turning up the gamma or brightness on your monitor or using your video card settings..
The truth is that very often a continuous centerline attack, whatever that may be tool-wise.. can be a very effective attack. This is in part because of the tendency for the centerline attacks to clear the line as they attack, disrupt balance and use advanced positioning with respect to the opponent.
Most suddenly violent encounters involve sudden and close range attacks; folks who will attack you on the street will normally NOT start dancing around and popping off snappy jabs.. What street threats can, and often will do, is something called woofing.
This is where a threat(s) will attempt to intimidate his prey you and make you so afraid through verbal threats and body language, that you freeze up and go “bunny” on him-- you become his prey-- and he makes his preparation… At some point he will step a little closer to you as he “woofs” and then with no warning will suddenly attack you.
Most of the time the distance will be close, not far away, and he won’t stop until you are on the ground and he’s kicking you in the head.. Intercepting the intent is what most street combat is about and WCK can do this well if used well.
The key with these simple attacks is that they are direct, unexpected, continuous, disruptive, and economical.
And that is the essence of WCK…
Well the video did NOT clear things up like Victor thought it would.
This is why:
Everything that was shown is pretty much the same thing that I been trained to do and instruct. The so called WC stance that Victor said was used to subudue the person on the ground is part of what we call EPW drill. The stand and hand postition is used because the person is expecting to enter into an immediate grappling situationn. If the person is standing he will take them to the ground quickly if he becomes aggressive, if he is on the ground he can pounce on him. We are having a throwdown tommorrow and I will video the drills I am talking about and show what I mean.
The basket part was to dark but its similar to another drill. We don’t have the funds to get the Gucci toys, SF gets the cash and the better toys. We use focus pads and Thai pads in the intial stages. In later ones you face a live opponent with MMA gloves, Headgear, and mouthpeice.
Just for a general FYI the rest the video is pretty much general Infantry tactics that all soldiers now have to get a working knowledge of, except the Rangers and SF get to play with live ammo more than we do. There has been some great leaps in MOUT (Military Operations on Urban Terrain) and CQM (Close Quarters Marksmanship)
Asia displays his p3wnership once again.
Vicky, you should learn not to challenge the professionals in their fields of expertise.
He looks too young to have studied a 200 year old martial art as well.:rolleyes:
If pankration is that much older than WC, then maybe WC came from it.:eek:
Anyway, if only part (and a small part at that) of CQD program looks like WC or even came from WC, does that mean they ‘Use Wing Chun’???
…C’mon guys make that square peg fit the round hole.
LOL… Just caught that… I assume it was intended..
Interesting post Tom..
Of course following the same logic, just because someone thinks they train WCK and does train Chi Sao, the Jong, etc, it doesn’t mean their WCK is really WCK at all, or nearly the same WCK that anyone else trains since the underlying methodologies to the training may be quite different.