Nick F posted this link regarding WC being used in a competitive situation:
http://www.chiu-vingtsun.com/news_en.htm
Are these clips representative of how WC is used against a resisting opponent? If so, what are the things that are being done correctly? If not, what are the things that are missing/being done incorrectly?
What can I say? 
These reminded me that someone sent me a link with some girl fights. I didn’t enjoy those either.
PR
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
What can I say?
These reminded me that someone sent me a link with some girl fights. I didn’t enjoy those either.
PR
Maybe the fact that no one seems to be able to fight halfway decently using WC shows the inherent weakness in the system?
There are inherent weakness in SOME systems of Wing Chun…quite possibly.
But within other WC systems it’s a different story.
And the INDIVIDUAL use of these systems.
All of this has to be taken into account.
ummmm…has anyone noticed that this was sanshou and not wing chun?
Originally posted by Vankuen
ummmm…has anyone noticed that this was sanshou and not wing chun?
ummmm…correct me if I am wrong, but I believe sanshou is just a format for fighting competitions. I believe at least one of the fighters in each of the clips was a WC guy.
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
[B]There inherent weakness in SOME systems of Wing Chun…quite possibly.
But within other WC systems it’s a different story.
And the INDIVIDUAL use of these systems.
All of this has to be taken into account. [/B]
OK, so how about critiqueing the weaknesses shown in those clips as compared to how a “stronger” system might do it. Maybe you can even demonstrate these things in your upcoming video clips?
Well…
I watched the first clip so far.
The 70kg weight class fight.
These guys are WSL style Ving Tsun.
The guy in black, who wins is the Ving Tsun guy.
He held his own against the other fighter (would have been interesting to know the other guys style). He got just as many takedowns as the other guy did. And other than a bloody nose? perhaps towards the last part of the fight he was dominating. He was able to make the other guy move away in reaction to his forward pressure and strikes, so that for me was dominance.
He was throwing a lot of jabs, crosses and hooks. For the most part it looked like he was driving linearly against his opponent. And he would do a good job of catching his opponents kicks and following up by throwing him down.
And in the end he WON! So kudos to him. Good job. That was him against a resisting opponent. He won according to the judges and according to what I saw. So his personal Wing Chun held up.
What was your problem with this guy Dale?
I give them credit for competing.
I didn’t see any movements from wingchun in the fights. It looked to be all sanshou.
He just ran at him throwing wild punches before he could see possible openings. If the other guy was good he would have knocked the wild charging guy in black, out. Also there was no structered techniques of any kind.
The throws were pretty cool.
Ok second clip
The WSL guy is in the black trunks with red on them. His opponent is wearing all black trunks.
I’m wondering if his opponent is either White Crane or Choy Lay Fut.
The WSL guy is using more looping punches, which is a negative. Not quite windmilling but close. But d@mn he was aggressive. Did a lot of front kicks to set up entry to follow up with strikes. More muay thai style neck clinches which didn’t work as well for him.
Technically speaking his elbows were out a lot and the punches were thrown from outside, with rocking back and forth(sideways). More poor boxing than WC. On the other hand he was dominating his opponent. Getting a lot of knockdowns and just hammering the guy.
The gloves seemed pretty big as well. So I also think that was having a bad effect on delivering WC properly. Chain punching with those guys would not work cleanly. Short power was going to be muffled by them. I think that was probably a factor on why he was going for a different way to generate power, which looked like poor boxing, rather than WC. But I’d have to defer to a real boxer as to wether his mechanics were there at all.
Lots more kicks from this guy and more neck clinches. Less throwdowns.
I again give props for stepping onto the floor to throwdown.
A fair journeyman’s fight. After all, how many events with gloves has he fought in? In any case he was more aggressive and driven then his opponent. Look at the very opening of the fight. If it had been a streetfight it probably would have ended much sooner. He was all over the guy. Not clean, certainly swarming him–but good aggression.
And again that guy won his bout using HIS WC.
David’s review of the first fight was pretty good. I didnt see the second fight.Takes too long to download.
They were fighting san shou format and under san shou rules.
Decent adjustments by the guy in black to the format and its limitations and mufflingof many wing chun strengths that dont come into play in sport situations.
Street situations would bring other things into play. The other guy stood like a standard south paw. The wc guy was more square bodied and adjusted to the south paw fairly well. kept it simple and straight forawrd- no spinning back fists-the other guy
madea poor attempt at one.
The guy on top usually turned well to be on top when they would go down. His bridge was near the guys face several times when going to the mat. In a real fight it could be a major factor.
Nick who was the person in the winners corner? Thanks for sharing.
very poor
no footwork no control of distance or relating to the person in front of you
just stand there toss out 1 punch or kick rush in smother yourself hug and fall
no power
no body mechanic
i could only stand the first 60 sec
sad to say i do think that was a WSL dude
but at least they got in and tried perhaps in a few years they will wake up:rolleyes:
Those bouncy mats can inhibit footwork.
Glad that they entered the arena. Gain some experience.The nature of the arena- mats and the rules play a role.
No such thing as “typical”. Each did their own thing.
Those bouncy mats can inhibit footwork.
Glad that they entered the arena. Gain some experience.The nature of the arena- mats and the rules play a role.
The cornerman for the WSL guys was
CHIU HOK YIN, a student of Wong Shun Leung.
Chiu Hok Yin
I, CHIU HOK YIN, have been very fond of traditional martial arts since as a child. In my early years, I followed my late master, Wong Shun Leung, to learn martial arts diligently. With his patience in teaching me for a long period, I have been benefited from it profoundly. Besides making my every endeavor to practice Ving Tsun, I have also been trying out and exchanging the techniques of martial arts with other outside schools between 1975 and 1987.
In 1984, I participated in the Guangdong Hong Kong Macau Wushu Fighting Invitation Match as a representative of my master’s martial arts association. After I had won the outstanding award, my master awarded a certificate to me and encouraged me to operate a martial art institution in order to enhance and glorify Ving Tsun by providing more chances for people to learn it.
That’s the reason why I have founded CHIU HOK YIN VING TSUN MARTIAL-ARTS ASSOCIATION (with the government approval). Recently, I have even been elected to be the board chairman of Ving Tsun Athletic Association and become a member of Hong Kong Wushu Union.
I am very glad to tell that one of my disciples has won the outstanding award in the 1999 Wushu San Shou Selection Match. I am quite pleased since I always aim at nurturing posterity enthusiastically so as to preserve the legacy of Ving Tsun and elevate Ving Tsun to a new height.
Originally posted by Vajramusti
[B]Those bouncy mats can inhibit footwork.
Glad that they entered the arena. Gain some experience.The nature of the arena- mats and the rules play a role. [/B]
not having foot work will inhibit foot work
if you got it you can use it no excuses
Originally posted by Vajramusti
[B]Those bouncy mats can inhibit footwork.
Glad that they entered the arena. Gain some experience.The nature of the arena- mats and the rules play a role. [/B]
Hey Joy, they know they are going to fight on a bouncy matt so they should train to use footwork on it.
PR
David- thanks. I thought that might be him. I knew a guy who took lessons from him at his school when he went to HK.
The match was a san shou format and the guy in black did what was needed to win the match within the restrictions of the rules in place..The guy in black was clearly superior. Showing off was not needed. Young people in a match gaining some experience
in facing someone.. It was their existential moment. “typical” was not the important thing. Sure couldda done this or that- evryone always couldda done this or that.
I noticed Ho Yin at the end not only congratulating him but was still
talking to him in a correcting way- possibly about the match.
Obviously a caring teacher.
Joy - glad you liked the clips
Granted not much of a WC look but large gloves, san shou format, relative inexperience are all possible mitgating factors that need to be borne in mind. Still he won - and according to the results paradigm often espoused here that is the main thing.
Chi Hok Yin. My teacher comments (alluding to his high skill) ‘He never uses bong sau, just jut and lap on the inside and outside of arm’.
Also there is some footage of him demoing at the 99 world conference - san shou and long pole.
Nick- agreed per result criterion. Yes I think that I have seen his
demo.
BTW the Tong per under sifu Au Yeung’s leadership is working on a new genealogy book. But the costs for a small spot- 1/4 page is
10,000 HK dollars! A little over $1200 US!
Only the rich can afford that? What do you think about the planned genealogy book- the last one was a disaster. I respect Au Yeung- that is not the problem.