This took place Saturday Nov 13th 2004 Golden Eagle Convention’s in Chicago. Its 11.2 mb of chi sao applications that windy city wingchun did at the tournament. Enjoy!
Nice closing move!! 
Ed!..I somehow had a premonition it would end by a move of the kind!..
Now go eat your rice!..
Nice clean demo. I like the closing movement too. Ray
Ed…you’re out of control. You and Bruce Lee have too much in common. Next time, flying spinning roundhouse to a flying elbow.
Good show,
Couch
Mediocre. Not too good. It looked like point sparring or tag.
The movements were stiff and the punches were lame.
I hope these guys aren’t instructors.
Don’t mean to sound like a wingchun snob. Just being honest.
To me it looked good. I like the quick hands of Fong sifu
and mr. Cruz. Mortal, could you explain why you think the movements were stiff??
I can see why you make the comment about point sparring,
although I do not agree with it. But I did not see stiff
movements.
Fong is a great wing chun sifu, and ed is a great sifu as well. If you take the time to look into his other endeavors you will see that.
On that note, I have seen Ed do much better in his techniques…this video at some points just seemed as if one of them was off…things didn’t mesh so well. I remember seeing some old footage of Ed doing defensive chi sau that simply rocked!
There is one thing I have been noticing though in many of your vid’s Ed, and I mean absolutely no disrespect…but why do you step back so often when it’s not necessary? It seems that you’re using toi gok ma quite often. Could be the angle though.
Nice clean demo with a flair of the dramatic towards the end!!!
Congrats from your TD buddy in NYC !
Originally posted by Vankuen
I mean absolutely no disrespect…but why do you step back so often when it’s not necessary? It seems that you’re using toi gok ma quite often. Could be the angle though.
I do the same when I work on “defense only” against random attacks.It is a drill and it gives my partner some room to attack again!
Not the same thing when I go (As Ed shows) into the counter mode.I usually attack the attack and take over the beat.
Good point jong. I will analyze my movements when next I do that same drill. My question was in terms of actual fighting. I totally didn’t think of the training aspect.
When I drill I try to move as closely as I would in real time. Although for this drill if the opponent was moving forward, to keep the superflous motion in check the defender would have to step back. Now if the drill is not continuous and only one attack at a time, there still is no need to step back, and the forward drive is even more optimal.
I prefer to be more aggressive in my defense. Maybe it’s just me. I only use TGM when I absolutely have to. (I do make use of it often, but try not to where ever possible.)
But again, I mean no disrespect by any of this question, for Fong’s lineage or Ed. I love his vids, and they help to keep me thinking.
I guess what I mean is the arms and body seemed disconnected. Like the body would stop and the arms would swing. Instead feet up through body to the arms.
The techs are what they are. It’s wing chun. I 'm not critiquing that.
Just the power generation.
With all due respect a sifu should have that mastered as well.
This is going to sound like I have a big ego. I am way better then these guys and I’m not even thinking about being an instructor of wing chun. Never mind a Sifu.
I am not trying to flame anybody or put them down. Just being completely honest based on my experiance.
You got it Vankuen!..It just saves times to step back a little to allow the partner to attack cleanly again.It allows to concentrate on the defensive aspect better.Then,we change mode and use more agressive tactics.
Stepping back should always kept to a minimum in Wing Chun because it can give the opponent a second chance.
IMO, Wing Chun works better actively,not reactively but the reactive sides has to be worked on as well!..You never know when you will have to defend only without the need to break some attacker’s face!.. (It could be a drunk friend or a crasy brother in law,you don’t want to hurt!)
Comments on Mortal’s post:
I guess what I mean is the arms and body seemed disconnected.
((“Seemed”/ How so? Eye of the beholder.))
Like the body would stop and the arms would swing.
((I dont know which movement you are referring to. By the time
the arm moves…the body is already into it.))
Instead feet up through body to the arms.
((???Chain of power? Sure-its there))
((Beginners make many visible moves. Experienced folks make smaller chum kiu motions))
The techs are what they are. It’s wing chun. I 'm not critiquing that.
Just the power generation.
((In chi sao and applications you are demonstrating control-if you control yourself and the other person-you can deliver the power
you want.
Ina demo- you dont hurt your partner))
With all due respect a sifu should have that mastered as well.
((Ed is pretty good at what he does. The demo was at a Chicago tournament gathering and involved Ed and his colleague demoing… not Master Fong—though there are master Fong clips on the site as well))
This is going to sound like I have a big ego. I am way better then these guys and I’m not even thinking about being an instructor of wing chun. Never mind a Sifu.
((Not ego- but possiblya degree of ignorance))
I am not trying to flame anybody or put them down. Just being completely honest based on my experiance.
((Honesty and good perception are not the same thing))
Just because we disagree doesn’t make me ignorant. I am allowed to have and share my opinion.
I train in the same type of Wingchun. So I know what I’m critiquing. If you can’t handle it check your own ego and ask why. I was polite the whole time.
Master Fong is a true master. I don’t think the other guy should use that title.
You think he isn’t stiff? Who is the ignorant one here?
I think the point about body connection was a valid one, and I’d like to see less of the super-quick attacks which, at the point of contact are a little too flicky… but its a demo and demos never have everything you want to see.
I quite like some of the other clips on the site - I remember seeing some in the past of Augustine Fong, and liked them alot.
Also, the clip’s title was Chi Sau Applications, which was a little bit misleading.
But I respect anyone who puts up some clips in a public forum - there will always be people like me who critique it.
Joy, if you’re reading, I don’t think you responded to the question I asked about whether you’d be able to put up some video footage of your Chi Sau and how it offers some of what sparring offers - there is no way at all I can make the seminar you spoke of (just too far to fly), but I’d like to see in action some of the things you have discussed.
Mortal- of course you have a right to an opinion. I did not call you ignorant- I referred to a possible degree of ignorance about what is going on in the video… and that is a relatively civil expression of differences in perception…particularly since I dont know you and many on the list like yourself use an anonymous label and have an uninformative profile which makes serious discussions on a net list difficult..
There are different levels of experience and different POV’s in wing chun. Knowing who is talking to whom and at what level can make conversing easier.
Agreed
My name is Anthony Arrigo. I train at Grados Wingchun in New York City fgor years. I have posted on here for much of that time. Just not as often as others. I also train under 3 of the local monks in Shaolin for the last 6 years.
There you have it.
Sifu Fong is much better then him. I don’t think sifu levels should vary. Either you are fluid, smooth, clean, and powerful or your not. Either your a master or your not. If he was a master Sifu Fong would not be way better then him. He seems more like a senoir instructor to me.
His body is clearly not moving as one unit. He is to focused on the techs. Multiple chops are good, but not without power.
Also his chi sau was sloppy.
I’m sure his intentions are good but he needs to work on that aspect.
I am not good at describing it but he is stiff. I guess either you are at a level of understanding where you see it or you are not.