Quote by T_niehoff:
Knifefighter is correct. We see very little fighting skill “demonstrated” in that fight, and that’s why it tarnishes WCK’s reputation. And that’s not a knock on either Chueng or Boztepe personally – you could replace either with just about any other “master” in WCK and it would be the same. There are important lessons that fight can teach us WCK practitioners, if we let it (by removing our “classical” blinders and leaving all the BS myths behind). The Boztepe-Cheung fight was a fight – that’s how genuine fights are going to “look” (unless they are sucker punch affairs or one participant greatly outmatches the other). Not like chi sao, not like san sao, not like “touching hands” or other “mock fights”, not like the movies, not like your fantasies (Leung Jan, Shaolin monks). It’s going to be a chaotic, sloppy, violently intense mess characterized by sheer aggression and resistance where anything can happen (you may very well end up on the ground, for example). Are you prepared to deal with that sort of environment? Is this what you are training for? If not, you’re wasting your time.
Yes, for once you are right.. This fight does demonstarte something to us.. that when the odds are overwhemingly against you, you are going to lose!
Yes, very little – in fact I would go as far as saying no – wing chun was used. Poor old willy didn’t have a chance. He couldn’t even stand up, let alone fight! When you have no balance, your fighting skills are redundant. It’s like a Ferrari with only 3 wheels and without tires – no matter how big the engine or power output, it can’t be transfered to the road. Imagine Ali, Hagler, or Leneord on roller skates in the ring. Do you think they can win any compionship match without balance?
Yes, it demonsrtates that a young man will always have the advantage over an older man past his prime. Can anyone on this forum put their hand on their hearts and say Malvin Hagler or Sugar Ray Leneord would fight better now than back in their 30s? Even a mediocre boxer in his prim and in fighting weight would beat an ex world boxing champion that’s in his 40s’ and out of fighting fitness.
Yes, it demonstrates that anyone that’s been preparing themselves for a fight well in 1-year in advance will always be better conditioned than the person that had not. Again, can anyone on this forum say that if Marvin Hagler or Ray Leneord were challenged by a boxer that’s been in training for one thing and one thing only for a year, for a fight tommoror, out of the blue, would they stand a chance of winning?
Yes, it demonstrates that a bigger and stronger guy has all the advantages on the ground. Dispite what many poeple say, there’s very little wing chun that can be applied on the ground. As I’ve said, you lose the use of many wing chun techniques on the ground because you don’t have rooting to apply those techniques properly. You have lost mobility. Without mobility, you can’t turn-ma or side-step to deflect your opponent’s force; you can’t step back to absorb his energy, and you would have to control his entire body weight, head-on, if he was on top of you, with gravity helping him. Try to imagine a 250lbs man bench pressing a 160lbs weight (you). He would find it very easy. However, turn it around, a 160lbs man would find it extremely difficult to control a 250lbs man.
Yes, it demonstartes that if someone wants to knobble you enough, he can set you up one way or another.
Finally, this fight proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that a bigger and stronger man will always win on the ground. If someone that’s been practising for over 30-years and still couldn’t appy his skills in this environment, what chances have you? Even if willy cheung was a black belt of Pakistani Ju Jitsu, he would still have lost.. simply because he was over-powered by a much stronger guy. He conceeded too much on the ground. Grappling is highly reliant on size and strength – in this envirnment, his attacker held all the aces: size and strength, and let’s not forget, gravity. At the end of the day, strength is a major factor in all fighting, it’s just that grapping on the ground has a far greater reliant on strength than wing chun standing up. Why do you think virtually no females are in BJJ? Simply because none of them would or could do well, since grappling on the ground is so strentgh and size reliant.
Time stand still for no man. From an early age onwards, our body gets stronger and stronger, and most people reach their peak between 26 to 33. From that age onwards we go down hill all the way – weaker and weaker. No matter how much you think otherwise or delude yourself, you can’t argue with facts. If you don’t beleive me, answer this: why do all the greatest boxers, the likes of Malvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leneord, start to decline and lose their dominance around 33? How come, without exception, all the greatest althlete start to slow down past the age of 35 or younger?
Anything that requires physical attributes is best done early, becuase you are going to reach your maximum potentail around 34. Some people say that they are much better at what they doing now than when they were in their 30s’ but that’s only becuase their skill has increased. However, if they had the skill level they have accumulated now back then, they would surely have been even better.
Although wing chun relies less on strentgh than most other styles, strength is still a major factor in successful fighting. That’s why old willy cheung was no longer the fighter that he was back in his 20s’ or 30s’
At the end of the day, Willy has only himself to blame for this sorry saga, but let’s not confuse this farce with the real reasons for his defeat.
My point or question is once you go down the path of studying a different art, in this case BJJ groundfighting when do you stop? If wing chun is your primary art then you are never going to be as competent on the ground as the person who practices BJJ as their primary art.