KingMonkey’s advice for Knifefighter should really just wrap up this entire thread, IMO - unless of course some folks just love being trolled…
“I think Knifefighter should take them up on their offer (AndrewS) and report back later - no more mouthboxing needed.”
AMEN.
Rene is correct 110%
you know it’s funny how people see this as a trolling post by knifefighter ,
i didn’t take it that way at all , just seems to me he voiced some of the problems that happen to alot of wing chun people [ myself included ] when you step out of the chi sau bubble and get infront of some one that is skilled at some thing else and is doing there best to apply there skill .
often times you will get dropped and go back to the lab and question what you have been told would work .
now that might make you loss heart or feel like you have been lied to or whatever
just natural human response
it sucks when you get all gassed up and you put time money and emotion/ belief in something
and you can’t even deal with a jab or a thai kick
i would get ****ed to
but for me it just spring boarded an honest assesment of my skills , strengths weakness and so on
i stopped looking for this or that ‘‘way’’ or ‘’ sifu ‘’ to hold my hand
just kept going in and learning from experience , looking at myself and pin pointing what i was missing , why i couldn’t pull of the pak or whatever
then went back to the drills and dialed in that particular attribute
went back in the ring and tried again over and over and over
it just comes down to how bad you want it ,how stubborn you are , or in my case i was just to dumb to quit
everytime something doesn’t work it’s no bodies, no styles fault , or sifu’s fault but your own , it’s a wonderful oppertunity to advance
Ernie wrote;
you know it’s funny how people see this as a trolling post by knifefighter,i didn’t take it that way at all , just seems to me he voiced some of the problems that happen to alot of wing chun people [ myself included ] when you step out of the chi sau bubble and get infront of some one that is skilled at some thing else and is doing there best to apply there skill .
I didn’t see it as trolling either. In fact (and unfortunately), lots of what he said is true about WC in general. He brought up some good points based what he feels about WC. I don’t feel attacked in anyway by his post. To me WC is simply one of the tools in my tool box.
phil
don’t you think those problems are just common learning experiences when you leave the comfort zone of your usual training partners and school
kind of like when you learn to drive you have all these idea’s and [ structure ] on how to hold the wheel and sit and look in your mirriors and so on
and yes you can function to some degree on the real roads but soon enough things get tossed at you that you were not ready for
it might seem overwhelming and through it all you try and maintain your [ image of what perfect structure looks like ]
but things tend to happen on there own terms and at the oddest times
so you can become frustrated trying to maintain this illusion in it’s static form
but eventually you adapt and then you see the real [ structure and flow ] that is under the illusion
an expression of an action for only the instant it is needed
now you can drive with one hand on the wheel , talk on the cell phone and flip the radio dial like it’s no big deal
“I think Knifefighter should take them up on their offer (AndrewS) and report back later - no more mouthboxing needed.”
I’ll do all the mouth boxing around here, thank you
Ernie, Phil:
Since I know that the origin of this thread were my posts about wing chun being better than kickboxing - and Catch being better than BJJ (which really pi##ed him off) - I view this thread as a trolling experience: “WHY WING CHUN IS INFERIOR” ??!! LOL.
Ordinarily…as you guys know - I would look upon a subject like this as something of an opportunity.
Perhaps a thought for a new thread is emerging…but without the obvious attempt at provocation and sh#t stirring controversy.
To be continued somewhere else…
Hi Ernie,
Nice attitude. I wish I had it during my early years of training. It took me a while to develop that open-minded attitude. Before I used to be like the the frog that landed on a balance scale and got fooled by its own weight. Now I always look for an opportunity to learn from other martial artists.
/marcus
Originally posted by Ernie
[B]you know it’s funny how people see this as a trolling post by knifefighter ,
i didn’t take it that way at all , just seems to me he voiced some of the problems that happen to alot of wing chun people [ myself included ] when you step out of the chi sau bubble and get infront of some one that is skilled at some thing else and is doing there best to apply there skill .
often times you will get dropped and go back to the lab and question what you have been told would work .
now that might make you loss heart or feel like you have been lied to or whatever
just natural human response
it sucks when you get all gassed up and you put time money and emotion/ belief in something
and you can’t even deal with a jab or a thai kick
i would get ****ed to
but for me it just spring boarded an honest assesment of my skills , strengths weakness and so on
i stopped looking for this or that ‘‘way’’ or ‘’ sifu ‘’ to hold my hand
just kept going in and learning from experience , looking at myself and pin pointing what i was missing , why i couldn’t pull of the pak or whatever
then went back to the drills and dialed in that particular attribute
went back in the ring and tried again over and over and over
it just comes down to how bad you want it ,how stubborn you are , or in my case i was just to dumb to quit
everytime something doesn’t work it’s no bodies, no styles fault , or sifu’s fault but your own , it’s a wonderful oppertunity to advance [/B]
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]Planes are distinctly inferior.
They have small tires which are not really suitable to roll over most types of surfaces, including pot-holed roads in the north.
They aren’t very maneuverable, making it hard to turn around corners, and forget about trying to park at the mall, let along parallel on city streets.
You can’t fit through many modern highway underpasses or tunnels because of those stupid wings, and if you try to go too fast, you lose traction on the ground.
Also, the doors are so high, you can’t reach them from curbside.
I don’t know why anyone would every drive around in a plane. [/B]
Based on the technology that was available at the time, horse and buggies once were an efficient mode of transportation. These days most people used automobiles, motorcycles, or bicycles.
Am I trolling?
Well- my title was definitely a troll. Gotta get those readers to open the book.
If anything was a troll it was UWC’s assertion that WC is superior to kickboxing, since he backed that statement up with no qualifiers or data at all. I would also argue that his post about the superiority of Catch was a troll also, and, while my upcoming analysis of Catch and BJJ is an attempt to stir things up a bit, its not a troll.
My analysis of WC is the same thing and is my honest observations comparing and contrasting WC methods with boxing, kickboxing and Muay Thai (I think six or seven years of Wing Chun training, some of that with one of Yip Man’s students, qualifies me to do an analysis of this type). Based on what the majority of people are posting here and what is shown on the site listed by Phil R., I stick by original criticisms of the way traditional WC is trained.
If you can watch the clips on that site and honestly say that a big part of your training has not been composed of things that look much like that, then my criticism does not apply to you.
Frankly everyone has been more generous to Knifefighter than he deserves.
He talks net-trash like he’s too good for anyone to teach him anything and gets an invitation to train with Andrew.
Doesn’t seem fair somehow.
Originally posted by Edmund
He talks net-trash like he’s too good for anyone to teach him anything…
Well, somebody has to keep things interesting around here.
intention
I think it comes down to your degree of intention and that of your training partner(s). if you train against half hearted attacks, whether pre-determined drills or sparring - you’re wasting your time (unless you are just learning the drills). my impression of boxing gyms etc (and this is not based on experience - anyone feel free to correct me 
) is that students are thrown in the deep end with sparring/realistic training earlier and that’s why they develop a sparring ability earlier.
If you are training with someone who is giving you a realistic situation to defend yourself against then (no matter what you train) you will find what works within your system in an efficient way.
I think we’ve gotta rely on our own judgement a little more rather than what a system prescribes. I personally find wing chun very effective, and rarely very venture outside the most basic techniques in sparring.
Interesting for you to the detriment of WC people legitimately discussing & promoting WC (e.g. Alan Orr, Victor etc). Guess the world revolves around giving you attention instead because you complained the hardest.
Originally posted by Edmund
Interesting for you to the detriment of WC people legitimately discussing & promoting WC (e.g. Alan Orr, Victor etc). Guess the world revolves around giving you attention instead because you complained the hardest.
That’s what your “Ignore” button is for. Use it if you don’t like my posts.
Or, even better, read a book on how to debate. Then you can post rebuttals to my various points instead of making personal comments.
Knifefighter wrote:
If you can watch the clips on that site and honestly say that a big part of your training has not been composed of things that look much like that, then my criticism does not apply to you.
I can honestly say that what you saw is not a “big” part of MY training. It’s just the alphabet. I haven’t uploaded any words or sentences yet.
One component of Wing Chun training is comprised of performing preset forms. Unfortunately, real fighting does not usually allow for the performance of predetermined movements, one after another in a specific sequence.
Wow…rarely have I ever seen so much ignorance in one quote. I was going along with some of it until I read that one.
Who told you that the forms were movements to be used one after another??? 
It would be physically impossible to fight someone by "Sil lum Tao"ing them!
Not a bad post but a little research wouldn’t hurt either :rolleyes:
Just tried the Ignore feature and it works a treat.
Unfortunately, well intentioned WCers are still quoting Knifighter’s 6 years of enlightened WC study.
I’ll resist the urge to scoff at that idea and just state a lot of this good will would be better directed towards someone who is actually honest and has an interest in WC.
Andrew, if this guy ever makes the effort and meets with you I’ll humbly retract my statement.
Reasonable?
Hey guys,
Let’s be reasonable… Don’t you think what he is saying is reasonable given the ignorant mind? I look at a lot of Wing Chun that exists today and see exactly what he’s stating. The popular understanding of Wing Chun is as he has suggested. Fortunately, for myself and many others on this forum, all or most of what he suggests does not apply.
Can’t one read his post and say “Yeah… I can totally understand why he would think that…” ?
I understand. I just don’t consider it a constructive discussion.
Same applies to Knifefighters other troll thread about Catch Wrestling.
He wanted to have an argument with WC people. He succeeded.
I’m sure he’s very happy he’s generated responses. No doubt he’s feeling quite superior about provoking them (including mine).
If he meets Andrew, I shall comence caring.