Regarding the theory of centerline, there was a good article about it written by Leung Man To. You may find this in the appendices section of “The Combat Philosophy of Wong Shun Leung” written by David Peterson.
I found these following points particularly insightful:
Quantitative superiority of using both hands against his one hand.
Both hands can be used independently or in combination.
Both hands can cooperate with each other in attack and defense.
By correctly facing the opponent and point to his “centerline”, one can attack the vital areas of the opponent more easily and with greater effect with both hands.
By attacking the opponent’s center of mass, both hands can “execute multiple devastating attacks within the shortest time”. Economy of motion, directness, speed and practicality are inherent in such method.
Chi Sau not only develops sensitivity and reflexes of the hands, but also loosen your opponent’s defense and find those open areas, thus applying the principle of "Intercept what comes; pursue what departs; when the hands are free of obstructions, attack instinctively.
Chi Sau offers the basis of “using no form to win any form”
There are more meat to this skeleton framework, but I leave it to the readers to do the responsible thing - get your own copy and leave us in peace. Ha! Ha!
Boxers skip rope as a conditioning supplement to their boxing
In my JKD class, my teacher would have us in a horse stance for 15 mintues, with our hands in a sort of praying position, to help condition our legs. I remember that a weight lifter came in once, a very arrogant beginner, who was bragging about his leg strength, (and the guy had some amazing legs muscles) he couldn’t last 10 minutes.
Regars to trollign or not, I have found Knifefighter to be one of the more open-minded contibutors to the site. And like my twin brothere Ernie, I agree that most of your criticisms are very very very valid.
Wing Chun is NOT superior to Kickboxing…but guess what…Kickboxing is NOT superior to Wing Chun. There is NO SUPERIOR style. There are only superior training methods.
I can direct everyone here to “kickboxing schools” where all they do is crunches and Tae-bo (Thai-bo ? lol). Those guys never hit anything or get hit back or ever spar…just as bad and what passes for 95% of “Wing Chun”.
I can also show you Wing Chun schools who train, spar hit, get hit and can actuially fight. Not the norm, but are difinitely out there. Just as god as what passes for 95% of “kickboxing”.
KF, definitely take Andrew up on his offer, I’m usually there weekends, and we play nice, but real. Ernie has been known to bite people, but I promise we’ll put a muzzle on him when he comes down.
although it is true,that a big wck success would shut up the “experts”,the wck i saw was fast/brutal and fantastic.
as many women in the class as men too.that is important.
still,id like to know why r and r isnt a fan of jjj?
Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
Regars to trollign or not, I have found Knifefighter to be one of the more open-minded contibutors to the site.
When he shows that on the WC forum let me know.
No, I think he just enjoys posting. Anyone can say they are interested in WC. Pretend to want to discuss, create dialogue, ask questions etc.
He’s was offended that Victor said WC is superior to kickboxing and rather than ask him about it, he had to make the “Why WC is inferior to kickboxing” thread to get more people to post.
No, I think he just enjoys posting. Anyone can say they are interested in WC. Pretend to want to discuss, create dialogue, ask questions etc.
He’s was offended that Victor said WC is superior to kickboxing and rather than ask him about it, he had to make the “Why WC is inferior to kickboxing” thread to get more people to post. [/B]
KF is open minded…he just doesn’t believe everything he sees because someone on a forum said it…using this thread as an example, if somesays that one art is inferior to another, he’s gonna ask you to prove it to him, and he will in turn do the same.
In my JKD class, my teacher would have us in a horse stance for 15 mintues, with our hands in a sort of praying position, to help condition our legs. I remember that a weight lifter came in once, a very arrogant beginner, who was bragging about his leg strength, (and the guy had some amazing legs muscles) he couldn’t last 10 minutes. [/B]
his legs were indeed stronger than yours. stance training isn’t a strength exercise, but an endurance exercise.
We didn’t do stance training when I was in jun fan. It was mainly striking, footwork and trapping.
Do you currently train Wing Chun? If so, how long have you trained? I looked at your profile and it seems you just trained a few martial arts here and there and never put in the time to really learn a full system.
I understand where you are coming from. I remember my first time ever sparring a white crane practitioner. It was so radically different then what I was used to, I got my butt whooped the first time I sparred him. I then thought, man wing chun isn’t all what its cracked up to be. That was because centerline theory did not work that well against him. He wanted me to attack his center and use swallowing white crane techniques to his advantage and it worked. I learned something very valuable about real fight situations. I no longer sparr with strict wing chun minded attacks anymore. I grapple, long range attack with kicks, ground fight etc, because I may need it if one of my main strengths as a fighter does not work.
Now after my cross training stuff I went right back to wing chun. My wing chun is now better and things make more sense to me now as a fighter. I can apply my wing chun with more confidence because I know if it doesn’t work I got more tricks up my sleeve.
One of the most beneficial things about cross training with wing chun is that you can apply wing chun theory to another system. It is pretty adaptable and sometimes improves both your corss training and your wing chun.
So, why don’t you go try it out with some good wing chunners like those guys out in Cali are offering and see what you think. If you still think its inferior then you are completely intitled to your own opinion, but please base it off facts and personal experience. Ignore all the politics that come with it and ignore lineage, just look at it for what it is, a fighting art.
Seven Star- 6 or seven. It was 5 before. The number varies…
of what consistency and frequency and with which sifu?
His knowledge of wing chun in his posts is underwhelming- but then he is not alone.
I think in a way that KF did good in these posts! We learn mostly in adversity. Difficult circumstances bring out the best in people. A few challenges here and there keep WC people on their toes and honest. I won’t be too surprised if people learned quite a few new things from his teasing posts so far. So I’m thankful for his lively stirring things up lately.
Something’s not right if he’s learnt Wing Chun for 6 or 7 years and still thinks the forms are a a set of movements that are meant to be used in sequence in a fight. And also that Chi Sao is just useless circular movements.
Those myths should have been dispelled in the first lesson. What a waste of 6 or 7 years!!
His sincerity or otherwise will be proven by his acceptance or rejection of the offer by the guys in LA.
To say that any style (or system) is inferior, you have lost already. Because one group trains completly opposite from the way you train do not take it for granted that you are the superior in the confrontation or you will find yourself on the floor. This is not the same as going into a situation with confidence. :rolleyes:
my sifu (does gong bao tian bagua and jook lum mantis, but also learned wingc un and taiji) has a friend in hong kong (chen taiji and wing chun) who went to thailand and faught the muay thai kickboxers. the first time he went, he attempted to block a kick with his bong sao. it hurt so bad he gave up. then he went to his hotel and looked through notes, looking at videos and forming a strategy. a few dasy later he went back to the arena, and he knew what he was going to do. he went in and upon contact, controlled the kickboxers right leg (the strong leg), and was able to take care of him after that.
muay thai kickboxers in thailand kick trees and other conditioning that americans will never go through, so muay thai in america is really not much, in thailand its another story. but after these peopel reach their prime, their health start deteriorating. so whats the point?
I know you’re not challenging him - and my remarks to him are motivated by my desire for him to WANT to see/work with guys who really take the fighting side of wing chun seriously.
