For those of you who had previous martial arts experience, when you started learning wing chun what parts of the system did you find yourself to have the most trouble learning or adapting to? For me coming from other styles such as karate and taekwondo I had a lot of trouble at first with the fighting stance footwork for the advancing steps. Also it was difficult getting used to the punching without turning my hips to generate the power.
The northern style is open and the souther style is close. When you have both arms at the same length, you won’t have the maximum reach. When you have the maximum reach, you will have to fight with one long arm and one short arm.
It’s impossible to have both at the same time. My UT class started with the 1st hour WC and the 2nd hour longfist. After 2 months, the students were so confused and I had to stop the WC session.
I did a little Karate and some Hung gar before I learned Wing Chun, but for me I found it the easiest to learn because it made a lot of sense to me. After a friend showed me pak sao I knew Wing Chun was the only system I wanted to learn.
I guess I was real lucky. I had never been exposed to any form of organized fighting before I started Wing Chun. I was 10 years old. A few slap fights with my sisters and cousins, or maybe the kids down the road. But nothing serious. I found it to be the most natural think I ever done. I have to admit that the punch was awkward to some degree, but once it was practiced a little it was like the rest.
yeah I agree it was awkward but the constant drills in wing chun ends up engraving the movements into your brain even if you dont realize it.
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1120881] Also it was difficult getting used to the punching without turning my hips to generate the power.[/QUOTE]
So you obviously have no clue about Chum Kiu! :rolleyes:
GH
[QUOTE=Graham H;1120999]So you obviously have no clue about Chum Kiu! :rolleyes:
GH[/QUOTE]
I believe that Shaolin Allan may be referring the punch without the use of the hip, because it does exist in Wing Chun, and if you are not used to the concept, then it will be difficult to apply in the beginning.
In such a case the teachings of Chum Kiu will not apply are irrelevant, because even if he has no trouble with them, he may still have had problems with the punchs that do not use hip power, hence his point.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1121001]I believe that Shaolin Allan may be referring the punch without the use of the hip, because it does exist in Wing Chun, and if you are not used to the concept, then it will be difficult to apply in the beginning.
In such a case the teachings of Chum Kiu will not apply are irrelevant, because even if he has no trouble with them, he may still have had problems with the punchs that do not use hip power, hence his point.[/QUOTE]
Ok so its normal to have conflicting ideas in Ving Tsun! Chum Kiu teaches us how to use the hip in all actions as does the dummy training. If you or shaolin allan dont have this idea its no big deal…the wonderful world of kung Fu as always!
GH
hmmm..I was taught that the “punch without using the hip” actually uses the hip very much, although not turning as in a ping kuen (reverse punch) but in sinking, tucking the sacrum to engage the whole body into what appears to be simply arm punching.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1121012]hmmm..I was taught that the “punch without using the hip” actually uses the hip very much, although not turning as in a ping kuen (reverse punch) but in sinking, tucking the sacrum to engage the whole body into what appears to be simply arm punching.[/QUOTE]
for me,
Hip is an extreme critical part. the action of this part cannot be replaced or substitute by triangle shape, elbow into the center line, structure…etc.
a stiff hip or rigid hip or hold on hip means dead hip. a dead hip is like a stance.
it is a mistake and trouble to train in WCK and lock the hip. and hip locking is also an influence of knees and angkle locking in YJKYM.
Thus, the so called keep/ hold the Triangle on the lower part of the body is actually not helping WCK but screw up WCK. it simply nail it dead and cannot do fully body fajing.
Fajing , or issue jing, Jing here define as the adaptive force which could response to the need from all direction with different amplitude with a spiral natural.
certainly, some will argue and tell me such type of practice make one feel firm and stable. the issue here is the stance YJKYM in WCK is different with Hung gar. it is about dynamically active instead of firm and feel strong and root to the ground.
one can not stand in a triangle shape feet and leg stance and expecting that is loose and dynamic. because that mechanics has locked the lower body up. and Qi flow is compremised.
One can not stand in a triangle shape feet and leg stance and loosing the upper body expecting one can fajing. because that mechanics has broken the lower part of the body.
One thing, for me, I dont believe in such thing as Nim Lik doing in a rigid triangle shape/frame lower body, as some thinking those are the magic of WCK.
and I call it a demo for a certain condition because take a look at the feet, leg, hip condition. it is condition to support the forward action but not to response to needs from different directions.
for me, it is like a four wheel drive car that is jamming the two back wheel drive. that is violating the law of physics to handle a dynamic action. some one might have a different reasoning that those Nim lik stuffs work, that I am open and love to hear the reason on how they solve the lower part body jamming.
So, if these above are not iron out when one started Wing Chun, for me, one is actually lock oneself into a conner. and the consequence is one would not be able to effectively play with MT, Kyokushin, BJJ, or mmA which is very dynamic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTigers
hmmm..I was taught that the “punch without using the hip” actually uses the hip very much, although not turning as in a ping kuen (reverse punch) but in sinking, tucking the sacrum to engage the whole body into what appears to be simply arm punching.
for me,
Hip is an extreme critical part. the action of this part cannot be replaced or substitute by triangle shape, elbow into the center line, structure…etc.
a stiff hip or rigid hip or hold on hip means dead hip. a dead hip is like a stance.
it is a mistake and trouble to train in WCK and lock the hip. and hip locking is also an influence of knees and angkle locking in YJKYM.
Thus, the so called keep/ hold the Triangle on the lower part of the body is actually not helping WCK but screw up WCK. it simply nail it dead and cannot do fully body fajing.
Fajing , or issue jing, Jing here define as the adaptive force which could response to the need from all direction with different amplitude with a spiral natural.
certainly, some will argue and tell me such type of practice make one feel firm and stable. the issue here is the stance YJKYM in WCK is different with Hung gar. it is about dynamically active instead of firm and feel strong and root to the ground.
one can not stand in a triangle shape feet and leg stance and expecting that is loose and dynamic. because that mechanics has locked the lower body up. and Qi flow is compremised.
One can not stand in a triangle shape feet and leg stance and loosing the upper body expecting one can fajing. because that mechanics has broken the lower part of the body.
One thing, for me, I dont believe in such thing as Nim Lik doing in a rigid triangle shape/frame lower body, as some thinking those are the magic of WCK.
and I call it a demo for a certain condition because take a look at the feet, leg, hip condition. it is condition to support the forward action but not to response to needs from different directions.
for me, it is like a four wheel drive car that is jamming the two back wheel drive. that is violating the law of physics to handle a dynamic action. some one might have a different reasoning that those Nim lik stuffs work, that I am open and love to hear the reason on how they solve the lower part body jamming.
So, if these above are not iron out when one started Wing Chun, for me, one is actually lock oneself into a conner. and the consequence is one would not be able to effectively play with MT, Kyokushin, BJJ, or mmA which is very dynamic.
Last edited by Hendrik; Today at 05:30 PM.
um…not sure if you are agreeing with me or not…?
depend on how do you use your hip.
I came from TKD. I didn’t have much coordination with the hands. Other than that, I felt pretty good about the training. My WC training was just what I was missing.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1121003]Ok so its normal to have conflicting ideas in Ving Tsun! Chum Kiu teaches us how to use the hip in all actions as does the dummy training. If you or shaolin allan dont have this idea its no big deal…the wonderful world of kung Fu as always!
GH[/QUOTE]
What I was saying is that even though WC uses the hips (as taught in Chum Kiu) it also teaches you to hit, without using the hips (as taught in chum kiu). You still tuck in, and at the conclusion of the strike you sink.
So, that does involves the hips, but not as you referred to as taught in Chum Kiu. An example would be a straight “walk in” punch, where no turning of hip is involved, but still the hip is involved (not so visibly of course and not as you refer to, as taught in Chum Kiu).
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1121085]What I was saying is that even though WC uses the hips (as taught in Chum Kiu) it also teaches you to hit, without using the hips (as taught in chum kiu). You still tuck in, and at the conclusion of the strike you sink.
So, that does involves the hips, but not as you referred to as taught in Chum Kiu. An example would be a straight “walk in” punch, where no turning of hip is involved, but still the hip is involved (not so visibly of course and not as you refer to, as taught in Chum Kiu).[/QUOTE]
We don’t share the same ideas of ving tsun so no point in any further comments from me.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1121094]We don’t share the same ideas of ving tsun so no point in any further comments from me.[/QUOTE]
Well, if we were to agree on everything, then what would be the point of discussing things?
Actually, I believe that we do to some extent. Yes, Chum kiu teaches us (among other things) to use our hips in striking. On that we agree.
I am also saying that there is WC striking where you don’t use your hips as in turning with the punch, but as tucking in and sinking (further) on the point of contact. Don’t you use this methodology in your school? If not, are you not interested for the sake of expanding your WC knowledge, to look into it?
By the way, Ten Tigers also referred to this in a recent post here.
Incidentally, the lineage of Chow Gar that I practice, also uses the hips, but in a manner that is not visible for the onlooker and somewhat different from the WC way.
The world of the TCMAs is fascinating and IMHO, any kung fu lover will want to expand his knowledge and understanding as regards genuine TCMA methodologies. 
Thanks for the input Hardwork and you’re right to what I was referring to. The human body has hips so obviously in a strike they will be used but as tentigers was talking about when you do styles for a long time where you use a reverse style punch it can be difficult to get used the the WCK style of punching when you first start out. It’s a very simple idea and i’m surprised someone was able to try and start an argument in this thread already on the subject since the argument was not done in any positive or constructive way.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1120999]So you obviously have no clue about Chum Kiu! :rolleyes:
GH[/QUOTE]
He did say when he started Graham… i assume you wait until at least the 2nd lesson to teach CK??
[QUOTE=GlennR;1121101]He did say when he started Graham… i assume you wait until at least the 2nd lesson to teach CK??[/QUOTE]
Exactly Glenn I didnt even understand why Chum Kiu came into play because I was talking about as a beginner to WCk from other martial arts.
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1121103]Exactly Glenn I didnt even understand why Chum Kiu came into play because I was talking about as a beginner to WCk from other martial arts.[/QUOTE]
Dont worry about Graham, he’s just sensitive to non PB WCers… its challenges his religious beliefs 
Back to topic, ive been doing MT for 3 years now and thought id transitioned pretty quickly from the closed hip-open hip (WC-MT) method of power generation.
In hindsight it took me a lot longer and im sure the other way around would have been just as hard.
But maybe im just slow