Is Wing Chun for Everybody?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
1

Often, I have seen discussions on this board devolve into the notion WC has only one way to be executed or there are many expressions of it. Can WC be for everyone if there is a single expression of it?

Usually those who take the opinion that there is a single expression of WC, typically think of it as a super aggressive system of strictly clinch fighting. For me, it is hard to imagine that it is for everyone if that is the extent of WC.

I would be curious to know what people think about this especially those who believe that WC really only has one correct expression.

2

There are too many variations and lineages of Ving Tsun today to even consider a logical answer to that question. For those that have a little bit of intelligence and are being taught by charlatans, they will find THEIR way!! :wink:

IMO what people are generally calling “interpretation of” are using it to give pure ****e some credence!!

GH

3

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1110115]Often, I have seen discussions on this board devolve into the notion WC has only one way to be executed or there are many expressions of it. Can WC be for everyone if there is a single expression of it?

Usually those who take the opinion that there is a single expression of WC, typically think of it as a super aggressive system of strictly clinch fighting. For me, it is hard to imagine that it is for everyone if that is the extent of WC.

I would be curious to know what people think about this especially those who believe that WC really only has one correct expression.[/QUOTE]

WC is not for everyone. Every body type and build can accomplish it but two things are required. A good teacher and a good student. The likelihood of finding both is slim in today’s interpretation of WC. Ever think about this, that you almost never see a student obtain the skill level of his Sifu? That inherently tells you something’s wrong. The original(good) students of IP man obtained a very close skill level to their Sifu. Your Sifu should be able to get you there just as quick as he got there. Some have realized this and reorganized their curriculum to do so.

4

[QUOTE=Graham H;1110122]There are too many variations and lineages of Ving Tsun today to even consider a logical answer to that question. For those that have a little bit of intelligence and are being taught by charlatans, they will find THEIR way!! :wink:

IMO what people are generally calling “interpretation of” are using it to give pure ****e some credence!!

GH[/QUOTE]

I guess that I am just looking for people to answer from their personal perspective not for the whole of WC. I don’t think that anyone could answer for all of WC.

5

Wing Chun is not for everyone for two reasons:

  1. People are drawn to different martial arts for different reasons.
  2. People are drawn to different instructors for different reasons.

Wing Chun, in it’s popular expression, is not for me. But it’s for me in MY expression so I practice and express it this way.

Plus, I don’t get along with everyone and their approach. So I gravitate towards like-minded thinkers and movers.

Peace,
CTK

6

I have heard a lot of things in my experience with martial arts. I did TKD for a short time before years later starting Wing Chun. I had met people who had done Karate I had visited several tournaments as a spectator. I think just about anyone could use Wing Chun but everyone is different and may use it a bit differently depending on body shape and size. I know many newer students have trouble because they try to overpower you with brute strength or they aren’t very coordinated. I was helping some new people Tuesday go though a footwork drill. I was having them move down a path while using a Biu Sau and a front kick while alternating from a Left to Right front stance. They had some trouble at first some more than others. Some people in other arts as well as Wing Chun have told me this or that art is better for whatever reason. I have had people tell me Wing Chun can’t be mixed with other styles because it wont work. I take what im taught and apply the techniques in whatever way my mind can come with if it doesn’t work in practice I don’t use it again. I have mixed other techniques into my Wing Chun and they have worked fine for me. You need to see the movie The Prodigal Son. Leung Yee tai and Wong Wah bo teach Leung Jan both have their own style of Wing Chun. I eventually plan to learn other arts if possible I may be getting the chance to learn some BJJ in exchange for helping to teach a guy Wing Chun. He also knows some Muay Thai so im excited. Wing Chun has become my base art but I use whatever I can. I have thrown some guys off by changing my stance and using some different movements then reverting back to Wing Chun. The only real shortcoming of any style is lack of imagination in the user. If I have a problem with something I go to my teachers or I work with my friends to find an answer that works if I have trouble I may look at other arts and see if they have an answer that fits what I need.

7

The problem with asking such a question on this forum is that most of us have some sort of personality disorder and do not approach Wing Chun in the same light. I believe it could be for everyone or anyone. My reasoning is that with most every principal or concept there will be many different expressions of the same. Or applications if you will. The basics make the system, just like Jiujitsu. And again, Wing Chun is easy to learn and easy to apply. Most other forms of martial art require you to get into super shape and stay that way. When you age you lose your ability somewhat and you then lose some of your gung fu skills. You just eventually get to where you simply can’t do it like you could when younger. Wing Chun is not a system that requires you to be a super physical individual. Small, weak persons, women, and even childrean can learn and apply this skill without being in top shape. You can carry your wing chun skills with you through out your life. However, it pays to be in great physical shape, but it is not really necessary with Wing Chun unless you intend to spend your time picking fights with other martial artists. Of course it will really depend upon the teacher’s teaching ability and the students willingness to learn. People today, especially young people, tend to have a rather short attention span. The reason for so many lineages of wing chun today is because Ip Man’s students and a few others started teaching white European types. They all like to think they each have something original. By far there are more white people teaching CMA than there are Chinese. It should also be understood that wing chun is indeed the best fighting system that has ever been devised. Proof of that is the vast number of lineages around the entire world. If it was not the best it would not be so popular.

8

The problem with asking such a question on this forum is that most of us have some sort of personality disorder and do not approach Wing Chun in the same light. I believe it could be for everyone or anyone. My reasoning is that with most every principal or concept there will be many different expressions of the same. Or applications if you will. The basics make the system, just like Jiujitsu. And again, Wing Chun is easy to learn and easy to apply. Most other forms of martial art require you to get into super shape and stay that way. When you age you lose your ability somewhat and you then lose some of your gung fu skills. You just eventually get to where you simply can’t do it like you could when younger. Wing Chun is not a system that requires you to be a super physical individual. Small, weak persons, women, and even childrean can learn and apply this skill without being in top shape. You can carry your wing chun skills with you through out your life. However, it pays to be in great physical shape, but it is not really necessary with Wing Chun unless you intend to spend your time picking fights with other martial artists. Of course it will really depend upon the teacher’s teaching ability and the students willingness to learn. People today, especially young people, tend to have a rather short attention span. The reason for so many lineages of wing chun today is because Ip Man’s students and a few others started teaching white European types. They all like to think they each have something original. By far there are more white people teaching CMA than there are Chinese. It should also be understood that wing chun is indeed the best fighting system that has ever been devised. Proof of that is the vast number of lineages around the entire world. If it was not the best it would not be so popular.

9

[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1110444]The problem with asking such a question on this forum is that most of us have some sort of personality disorder and do not approach Wing Chun in the same light. I believe it could be for everyone or anyone. My reasoning is that with most every principal or concept there will be many different expressions of the same. Or applications if you will. The basics make the system, just like Jiujitsu. And again, Wing Chun is easy to learn and easy to apply. Most other forms of martial art require you to get into super shape and stay that way. When you age you lose your ability somewhat and you then lose some of your gung fu skills. You just eventually get to where you simply can’t do it like you could when younger. Wing Chun is not a system that requires you to be a super physical individual. Small, weak persons, women, and even childrean can learn and apply this skill without being in top shape. You can carry your wing chun skills with you through out your life. However, it pays to be in great physical shape, but it is not really necessary with Wing Chun unless you intend to spend your time picking fights with other martial artists. Of course it will really depend upon the teacher’s teaching ability and the students willingness to learn. People today, especially young people, tend to have a rather short attention span. The reason for so many lineages of wing chun today is because Ip Man’s students and a few others started teaching white European types. They all like to think they each have something original. By far there are more white people teaching CMA than there are Chinese. It should also be understood that wing chun is indeed the best fighting system that has ever been devised. Proof of that is the vast number of lineages around the entire world. If it was not the best it would not be so popular.[/QUOTE]

What a load of nonsense.
Just because a “vast number of lineages around the entire world” exist means nothing. It just means they exist… thats it
Im sure the “vast” number of Muay Thai people would have issues with this statement as they have results… not some pretend fantasy world that 99% of WC people live in. And lets not start with the BJJ, MMA, Boxers etc
And the old line about being “super physical” further highlights your ingnorance in regards to other styles. Your inference here is that the other styles are strength/speed basesd with no technique. More nonsense.

Its popular because, at a base level, its easy and non-confrontational. No sparring and “gor-sau” is the ultimate test. Makes it very easy to live in a little pond with the other big fish.

Thats my rant for the day

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Is Wing Chun for Everybody

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1110115]Often, I have seen discussions on this board devolve into the notion WC has only one way to be executed or there are many expressions of it. Can WC be for everyone if there is a single expression of it?

Usually those who take the opinion that there is a single expression of WC, typically think of it as a super aggressive system of strictly clinch fighting. For me, it is hard to imagine that it is for everyone if that is the extent of WC.

I would be curious to know what people think about this especially those who believe that WC really only has one correct expression.[/QUOTE]

HumbleWCGuy , you right , there are alot of different expressions of WC , and it
is an agressive system strictly used for clinch fighting . Can it be used by anyone ?
Well it all depends on you ? You can go and watch WC demos on youtube or invest in WC instructional DVDs , but unless you experience it you would ’ nt know . Go and take a lesson on WC for about a month , then you ’ ll find out on your own what ’ s it like to do WC . and if WC is ’ nt for you then , go and try out different arts you have that option .

Like any other combat arts it all takes time to learn and practice and all that training that students do under the supervision of their teachers regardless of what the art is . We all have to hit the bag , sparring if the art that you like requires sparring or other methods of training to progress in your art .

I don ’ t know if you ’ re training in anything now ? But you really need to experience the art if you really want to know if it will work for you or not . For me personally I can ’ t kick high either , I rather use mostly my hands and use low kicks so Yeah , I like WC , but I also like to study other combat arts too like boxing , Muay thai , grappling , and different style of kung fu . Just to get the dexperience of what the other art are like . since on this forum we talk about grappling , but for me I call it the 4 ranges of combat where you can use different parts of your body to conquer your opponent regardless of styles or systems .

So go and get your experience in WC or any other art , then you find out what you really like and don ’ t like depends on what part you would like to use if you personally yourself got into a fight . Everybody is different right ? You got boxing ,
Kung fu , grappling , korean , japanese , and filipino arts , Muay thai , capoiera , indonesian arts so you do have a variety of arts you can experience .

11

in my humble opinion, Wing Chun has lots to offer and can suit a person looking for self defence, for an internal art or simply for a hobby. It can be trained by anyone of any gender, build, or age, and for me having trained other styles it is my best fit, but to say it suits everyone is disingenuous. If a person wants to fight MMA or is competition oriented then Wing Chun is not for them, if they want to be able to do the spectactular forms and flying acrobatics seen in other arts then again its not going to meet their needs and some people have a natural tendancy towards grappling so other arts would suit them much better.
Everyone has to find the art, and within that the lineage (due to the variances) and teacher (and hence teaching style, classroom environment) that suits them.

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1110442] …The reason for so many lineages of wing chun today is because Ip Man’s students and a few others started teaching white European types. They all like to think they each have something original. By far there are more white people teaching CMA than there are Chinese.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I completely get your point here, but it sounds racist as Hell. Sure, it’s often said that European and American cultures place more emphasis on individuality than some other cultures, but there has always been plenty of that in the Chinese martial arts as well. Look at the incredible number of styles of TCMA, and within each style how many sub-systems or lineages. Each prominent sifu gives rise to a new interpretation and often a new version… on the mainland, in China! And, taking just one "lineage"for example, how many different approaches to WC have emerged just from the direct (Chinese) disciples of Grandmaster Ip? Each one has an original take on the art. Maybe they are all the “white, European type” of Chinese! LOL

[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1110442]It should also be understood that wing chun is indeed the best fighting system that has ever been devised. Proof of that is the vast number of lineages around the entire world. If it was not the best it would not be so popular. [/QUOTE]

I love Wing Chun, I feel it’s a fantastic art, and have been doing it since the late 70’s… but statements like this are the kind of absolute rubbish that makes the rest of the martial art community laugh at us. --Sorry, with respect for GlennR’s comments, my “rant for the day”, too!

13

That’s ok. You both have a right to rant too. When I started learning Wing Chun there was only the one lineage that I was aware of, and I remained oblivious of all the other lineages and spellings until a couple of years ago on this very forum. None of that existed back then or I am certain I would have heard something about it all then. I lived in New Orleans, and I was aware of Mantis and a few other systems, but was really not impressed by any of them. I was sworn to never teach it outside my race. Which I promised and will never do. I have to think that because of the completely different cultural attitudes that the westernized folk were just like most on this list. Just by reading a single thread you can see how most of them are going to end up. No one fully agrees with anyone else, and most completely disagree on every thing. I think this is just how it all spread out like it did. My wing chun was a family pass down, and it remains pretty much like it was taught to me. And I am fairly certain it was unchanged from when it was passed to my dad in China back around the turn of the century. When I learned it, the only purpose was that I was expected to follow in my fathers footsteps. And I pretty much did. I don’t think I have ever lived in a fantasy.

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[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1110115]I would be curious to know what people think about this especially those who believe that WC really only has one correct expression.[/QUOTE]

IMHO I don’t think Wing Chun is for everyone.

Wing Chun is for people who actually want to train in a system and maintain their healthy interest in kung fu for life. It isn’t for the passing crowds that tend to exist more today than before. It isn’t for the ‘quick fix’ generation that just want to learn a few sansau techniques either.

As for ‘correct expression’, that’s a meaningless venture as there will always be opposition fme. Self expression is freedom of movement and much of what is generally ‘accepted’ as Wing Chun today is very restrictive to movement. Some would even say ‘un-natural’.

Actually this whole conversation is kinda pointless, because nobody has even said exactly what Wing Chun IS, so how can we know if it’s suitable for everyone or not!?

People talk about curriculum, but I haven’t seen Ip Mans yet presented by anyone. And considering his masive influence on the world, I would expect his close students to actually ‘present’ what that is, like in it’s original form. But they haven’t, and they probably never will :o :mad:

15

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1111016]

People talk about curriculum, but I haven’t seen Ip Mans yet presented by anyone. And considering his masive influence on the world, I would expect his close students to actually ‘present’ what that is, like in it’s original form. But they haven’t, and they probably never will :o :mad:[/QUOTE]

http://www.fongswingchun.com/federation-curriculum.php

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[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1110676]…I was sworn to never teach it outside my race. Which I promised and will never do.[/QUOTE]

You comment speaks volumes, but leaves one question unanswered: Why do you bother to post in English on a public forum debating with gwai-lo?

17

[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1111127]You comment speaks volumes, but leaves one question unanswered: Why do you bother to post in English on a public forum debating with gwai-lo?[/QUOTE]

Oh, to remind us westerners that we dont REALLY have the real Wing chun.

How nice of him.

18

Wing Chun is for people who actually want to train in a system and maintain their healthy interest in kung fu for life. It isn’t for the passing crowds that tend to exist more today than before. It isn’t for the ‘quick fix’ generation that just want to learn a few sansau techniques either.

But doesnt the whole Ng Mui legend talk about how it was developed as an effective self defense system,learnt in a short time compared to the traditional styles??

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[QUOTE=GlennR;1111187]But doesnt the whole Ng Mui legend talk about how it was developed as an effective self defense system,learnt in a short time compared to the traditional styles??[/QUOTE]

Dude, I could teach you and entire curriculum in one day but that doesn’t mean you understand what I’m talking about! And wasn’t Wing Chun already a Martial Artist when she met Ng Mui? Her father was her teacher, no?

Different course for different horses.

[QUOTE=GlennR;1111187]Oh, to remind us westerners that we dont REALLY have the real Wing chun.[/QUOTE]

Truth hurts sometimes doesn’t it?

Having Wing Chun passed to you verbally (in English) and somehow managing to get some sort of natural fighting ability from your time and effort is something that I think everybody will relate to. Even me.

But to be ‘given’ Wing Chun in it’s natural tongue, written down and broken down into easy-to-remeber blocks for teaching purposes IS a totally different experience imho. Maybe that’s all Jackies saying. He’s been lucky enough to learn from the page.

But I couldn’t say that this has not been shared with westerners, because I learnt like that too and so have many others (some post here!) But I will tell you one thing. I’ve seen guys progress so much quicker when they know the original cantonese language and curriculums.

20

[QUOTE=WC1277;1111068]http://www.fongswingchun.com/federation-curriculum.php[/QUOTE]

A great example of a Chinese/English curriculum imho some repeats and not the same as what I practise completely, but everything on there is familiar to me and my experience, as it should be to anyone who has gone through all the forms and weaponry imho.