This has been an on going debate I have with a friend of my, and I want to know what everybody else thinks. Our debate has been: Will knowing more than one ‘style’ make you a better fighter? My personal belief is that while it is plausible that knowing many diff arts will help you become a better fighter, most of us just do not have the time each art requires. Therefore it is better to stick with one style until you are able to perform the movements in the style (read:able to fight with the style, when it is no longer a style, but an extension of your reflexes) without thinking in a confrontation.
While my friends view is: it is better to study different arts at the same time w/o a devotion to any single art, therefore exposing yourself to different situations. i.e. wingchun for short distance, white crane for long distance, BJJ for ground fighting and such.
My counter to his reasoning is: A) most of us have to work for a living so our practice time is already limited B) just learning one art would take a life time C) therefore, whats the point of learning bits and pieces here and there, after all, your 1 hr a day of BJJ, 1 hr a day of Wing Chun and 1 hr of whitecrane is not going to beat the guy that does 3 hrs a day of BJJ on the ground, because that’s the only art he studies, or the Wing chun man in “short distance” who does 3 hrs of wingchun.
Better to just study one art and take them out with your style.
It is my opinion that Wing Chun is all that is needed. I know that most people on here don’t agree though. they think you should take wing chun along with bjj.
Wing Chun will work against a white crane guy because in order to hit you, he has to get close. Where wing chun works. Wing chun works against bjj guy because he has to touch you before he tries to take you down. That is where you should “take care” of your opponent… before he can get you to the ground.
IMHO
If you really can use Wing Chun as “fighting principles”, I dont see why you should crosstrain.You should get to the level when you are very dangerous to approach.Like getting is the striking range of a rattler or something!
We just have to be aware that nobody is perfect.
Vegita:
Think about studying martial arts like studying in school. In High School you were taught many different subjects and it did not mess you up or confuse you, i hope. The idea of a well rounded martial artists is like trying to be a well rounded educated person. It requires hard work and much time and effort.
But the problem with studying more than one martial arts in our modern time is time and quality. Unless you are full time professional martial artist or a trust fund baby who loves martial arts, the average joe has only the time to devote “quality” work toward one method.
Now if you have the time to study martial arts like we had the time to devote 8 hours or more in High School, I am sure we can study more than one “style.”
Realistically speaking, most people do not have the time and if quality is important, than I perfer to work on one method until I gain mastery of it before I start jumping around looking to be complete.
Bao
It is my opinion that Wing Chun is all that is needed. I know that most people on here don’t agree though. they think you should take wing chun along with bjj.
Whereas others, your sifu Carl Dechiara for example (according to red5angel), took taiji, and still others, eg. WT, supplemented with Escrima.
The answer to the question varies from individual to individual and depends on your interests, personal characteristics, and goals.
To settle the argument, I guess you could both train in your chosen methodologies full on for two years, then meet for a death match. The winner could post the result on this forum, to, I’m sure, huge accolades (or maybe OTOH total indifference).
Do what you think is right, and let other people do what they think is right. Only dictators and the crazy demand that everyone agree with them.
As anerlich says “The answer to the question varies from individual to individual and depends interests, personal characteristics and goals”.
I would also add, that it is my opinion that one should train in as many or as few systems as they see fit. My concern with choosing not to train in other systems that might spark your curiosity and excite you. Is that at the end of the day, your Martial training should be fun and it should keep you fresh and thinking. Some people get this from learning one system some from learning many, dont let rigidity become your barrier for self discovery and combat effectiveness.
Cornerstone=foundation
Hello,
The question of whether or not to train in more than one style is more complicated than it first appears. One must first consider the reason for training in an additional style. Is it because there is a lacking within your chosen system? Perhaps you have not trained hard enough. Is it because you have an interest in another aspect of fighting which is not emphasized in your system? Perhaps exploration will open your eyes to your own understanding of your chosen system.
People will most likely never agree fully on whether to train in more than one system or not. Part of this is due to the myriad differences between each of us. The argument that we have limited time to train is a valid one. In todays society it is not the quanity which one knows but the quality. The same goes for training in multiple arts. It does not matter the quantity of arts trained, rather it is the quality and understanding of the arts trained which is of importance.
Myself, I have found that exploring other arts has opened my eyes to what is found within Wing Chun. Training in Pekiti Tirsia has improved my understanding of body mechanics and footwork. Some of the sensitivity drills have opened my eyes to various differing energies and allowed me to enhance my Chi Sau.
The key seems to be to obtain a firm and full foundation in your chosen art prior to complicating things further by adding additional things. Just as one can take a Honda Civic and soup it up to create a more powerful and sporty vehicle; one can use the knowledge gained from other arts to soup up ones chosen system. However, just as there are some enhancements which will not work on our Civic, there are some things which may violate the principles of the chosen system. Before one tries to build on the Civic one must fully understand the “foundation” of the base model. Once one does then one can work to enhance the performance. Some of this has to be done by trial and error. Still, one can look to what others have done before you to help find the way. Yet some will be quite happy with the base model and have no desire nor need to change. The same can be said for your chosen system of martial arts. If it meets your needs then why change it?
The founders of Wing Chun distilled the art from other systems. They essentially took what they wanted from other arts and then blended them to create what has become Wing Chun. If they were alive today I believe that they would continue to incorporate things from other arts. Environment also plays a key role. If I were to fight in Alaska I would train and most likely emphasize different things than if I trained in Florida. Also if I were living in the mountains as opposed to on a boat, the training would vary. If I lived in the wrestling capitol of the world and was most likely to face a grappler then I would most likely put more emphasis on learning how to counter a grappler.
Does Wing Chun have everything it needs??? Since it is a conceptual system one could argue that it does. It is not the techniques which is important but the understanding of the concepts behind the techniques. However, perhaps it is this very conceptual framework which enables one to explore other arts and then take what one wants to build it upon the fundemental framework of Wing Chun.
If I may make a simple suggestion; I would encourage everyone to read a book, Living the Martial Way this book covers the concept of living life as a martial artist. It is not a training book per se but is one which can serve as a guide to becoming a martial artist.
Bottom line, I personally feel that if one has a firm foundation then one can, if they wish, explore other arts.
Peace,
Dave
I have noticed that this question never garners agreement on all sides.
My opinion is that you should do what you like, and that there perhaps are different arts that specialize and do better in different situations.
fear not the man who practices 100 things 10 times,
but the man who practices 1 thing 1000 times
when it comes time to throw down, i’d rather be real good at a few things, than mediocre at a lot of things. in a real fight you wont have time to sift through the 10 different styles youve learned to find something that works.
Consider past Masters
Hello TJD,
I agree with you in principle however I do not think there is anything wrong with exploring other arts if you would like. Read my posts and you will notice I make a distinction between quality and quantity.
If you look at the history of several past masters you may notice that many of them crosstrained in more than one art. Not a large sampling but a definite cross section. I think that the key is that each one first mastered their respective arts before exploring others. Also once they did begin to train in other arts the goal seemed to be to use the new knowledge to enhance what was already learned.
I guess the key is first to buld that firm foundation and then expand. Again quality rather than quantity. Still, variation is the spice of life 
Peace,
Dave
Originally posted by anerlich
[B]
Whereas others, your sifu Carl Dechiara for example (according to red5angel), took taiji, [/B]
Lots of people in wing chun take other martial arts like bjj for example, because they feel that wing chun doesn’t provide for everything. It is our (lineages) opinion that wing chun takes care of everything. Carl and his students have decided to do tai chi not because wing chun lacks something, but because it “enhances” our wing chun. And when i say “enhance,” i mean tai chi smooths out or movements, relaxes us, and and teaches us how to control or bodies. We understand that wing chun alone is wonderful and all that’s needed in a fighting situation, but we think tai chi helps us improve at our wing chun.
Originally posted by Atleastimnotyou
but we think tai chi helps us improve at our wing chun.
I have heard these comments from others before and (IMO)I don’t know why or how tai-chi could improve somebody’s Wing Chun!..We have our SLT to make us relax,find our root and learn the proper Wing Chun energy use.We also have CK to learn how to use all of this in motions when we are ready.
Why should we have to practice a completely different art to get better in Wing Chun?..It is like practicing guitar to get better at the piano!
I prefer to hear that someone is learning tai-chi because he likes it for some reasons or BJJ because he feels like knowing ground fighting is a good bonus thing to have in his arsenal.
atleastiamnot you-is self contradictory, but no matter…OTOH he sez- you dont need anything besides wc—like bjj etc..otoh he sez:taichi improves his wing chun.
BTW a two year more or less student of mine was looking up schools in Minneapolis… at first he couldnt find much… found one
in Wisconsin – too far. Then found a Minneapolis website and
apparently visited a school where the goal was to become like their absent leader.. Was singularly unimpressed
with the training regimen which apparently was not all wing chun.
Any more ideas?
if your wing chun isnt that good without tai chi, wasn’t it missing something?
chi sau and siu lim tau contain everything you need to learn how to relax, control your body and move smoothly, perhaps your doing them incorrectly? 
(to play the devil’s advocate)
Re: Consider past Masters
Originally posted by Sihing73
[B]Hello TJD,
I agree with you in principle however I do not think there is anything wrong with exploring other arts if you would like. Read my posts and you will notice I make a distinction between quality and quantity.
If you look at the history of several past masters you may notice that many of them crosstrained in more than one art. Not a large sampling but a definite cross section. I think that the key is that each one first mastered their respective arts before exploring others. Also once they did begin to train in other arts the goal seemed to be to use the new knowledge to enhance what was already learned.
I guess the key is first to buld that firm foundation and then expand. Again quality rather than quantity. Still, variation is the spice of life
Peace,
Dave [/B]
i agree wholeheartedly,
many of the people who come to our school to just learn another style to rack onto their already long list of styles they’ve “learned” for a month seem to want the pretty house, without spending the time on its foundation
still, when it comes down to a fight, if your confused with all the 3000 things youve learned and never mastered, your worse off than the guy who just practiced 1000 chain punches every day
TjD sez:
“still, when it comes down to a fight, if your confused with all the 3000 things youve learned and never mastered, your worse off than the guy who just practiced 1000 chain punches every day”
I tend to think thats the advantage AND the problem. Wing Chun often seems (to me) the World’s Most Boring Martial Art because of the endless nitpicking and repetition of every little detail…I know thats where it all comes from, but sometimes it’s so frustrating.
So, I’m sometimes quite jealous of those who’ve found other things to do, especially if they’ve found good teachers with which to study, interesting arts, etc. Hey, more power to them, I say.
I won’t say that wing chun is improved to any great degree by another art, but it is informed by other arts, by using/viewing their approaches in contrast to it’s own, esp. CLF, BagGua, etc.
yuanfen:
I said that imo wing chun was all that is need in a fighting situation, but some people take bjj and wing chun. Now you think that since i do wing chun and tai chi i am contradicting myself. but im not cuz i don’t wouldn’t us tai chi in a fighting situation like other people would use bjj.
Old jong:
you said, “We have our SLT to make us relax,find our root and learn the proper Wing Chun energy use.We also have CK to learn how to use all of this in motions when we are ready.” And i totally agree with you on that.
but when you say “Why should we have to practice a completely different art to get better in Wing Chun?..It is like practicing guitar to get better at the piano!” Your wrong on this count. Tai chi and wing chun aren’t completly different. I am NOT saying that Tai Chi and wing chun are the same, but they are complements of eachother. Two completely different martial arts are like: Wing Chun and bjj. Wing chun and tai chi are like practicing the banjo to get better at the guitar. I agree that wing chun has the forms which make you more relaxed, smooth, and teach body control. But in the Tai chi form, you are moving around a lot more so body control and smoothness are harder to acheive. So the more you acheive in that… it will then translate into your wing chun too. I am not saying that you “need” to take tai chi, you don’t, wing chun is perfect by itself. But in my opinon, tai chi helps.
TJD:
I did NOT say that “wing chun isn’t any good without tai chi.” Wing chun is great and it does not “need” tai chi… I just think that the smoothness and body control you get from it helps my wing chun.
There are arts WC
WC is an open ended system and many things can be added for personal use. However, I firmly believe as the years go by you will discover what really counts is how much you can discard. It is more important to refine useful skill and to discard collected things that have cluttered yourself with. Keep uncluttered (but not blind to other arts) and follow the WC concepts and you will bloom into a self actualized MA person.
IMO, WC already has too much! There are three arts in WC. The Fist/Leg art, the Long Staff art, and the Broadsword art! Plently of time will be required to become competent in all three areas. You will probably died before become good at all three WC arts…so plan on using several lifetimes!
Regards,
John D.
Carl and his students have decided to do tai chi not because wing chun lacks something, but because it “enhances” our wing chun.
Semantics. I could make the same argument for the other things I practice as well. My argument is with the apparent assertion that you, Carl and red5angel are somehow “purer” or “understand WC better” than those of us who “cross-train” rather than “train in other systems to enhance”. The guy riding on the high horse rightly gets the derision of those who have their feet closer to the ground.
If you take the blinkers off, WC can make your BJJ better, and BJJ can make your WC better, standup as well as on the ground. As can taiji, escrima, judo, etc.. FWIW, I studied taiji for five years though I don’t practice it any more. IMO there are more useful things to practice, but YMMV.
I agree with what John said about WC being an open-ended system. You can integrate other things into it if you understand what you are doing and apply it to situations that the “old masters” never experienced. There’s “too much to learn”, but that’s true of everything, try staying on the cutting edge of IT, my profession, in more than one small niche. But if you try to master just one small thing, IMO you miss out on heaps of other interesting and worthwhile stuff.
I think exploring other arts is a good idea. Obviously you and Carl do as well.
More than one style?
Originally posted by Atleastimnotyou
yuanfen:
I said that imo wing chun was all that is need in a fighting situation, but some people take bjj and wing chun. Now you think that since i do wing chun and tai chi i am contradicting myself. but im not cuz i don’t wouldn’t us tai chi in a fighting situation like other people would use bjj.
Glad you told me you’re not contradicting yourself or I might not have noticed. Methinks you dost protest too much. If you take Taiji from the same teacher as you study Wing Chun, but it’s not used for fighting, what is it good for? What does it add to your Wing Chun? I think the concepts are not the same in the two arts in question. You are adhering simultaneously to two contradictory positions, saying that cross-training different arts is bad except when you do it.
[B]
Old jong:
you said, “We have our SLT to make us relax,find our root and learn the proper Wing Chun energy use.We also have CK to learn how to use all of this in motions when we are ready.” And i totally agree with you on that.
[/B]
But, again, aren’t you contradicting yourself? Ask yourself why in your lineage, did Yip Man, Leung Sheung, and Chung Man Nien (Ken Chung), only need to study and teach Wing Chun?
[B]
but when you say “Why should we have to practice a completely different art to get better in Wing Chun?..It is like practicing guitar to get better at the piano!” Your wrong on this count. Tai chi and wing chun aren’t completly different.
[/B]
Oh, no? On what systemic principles are Wing Chun and Taiji the same?
[B]
I am NOT saying that Tai Chi and wing chun are the same, but they are complements of eachother. Two completely different martial arts are like: Wing Chun and bjj. Wing chun and tai chi are like practicing the banjo to get better at the guitar.
[/B]
Mention of banjos always makes me think of Deliverance. I tend to agree with Anerlich that BJJ or jiu jitsu and Wing Chun are complementary. Taiji seems to be just close enough to lead you off course.
[B]
I agree that wing chun has the forms which make you more relaxed, smooth, and teach body control. But in the Tai chi form, you are moving around a lot more so body control and smoothness are harder to acheive. So the more you acheive in that… it will then translate into your wing chun too. I am not saying that you “need” to take tai chi, you don’t, wing chun is perfect by itself. But in my opinon, tai chi helps.
[/B]
We’d be better off putting in the time on Wing Chun.
[B]
TJD:
I did NOT say that “wing chun isn’t any good without tai chi.” Wing chun is great and it does not “need” tai chi… I just think that the smoothness and body control you get from it helps my wing chun. [/B]
I think you like Taiji practice, which is fine. But when it comes down to which approach makes you better at Wing Chun, I’d hafta’ say, it’s staying the course and learning Wing Chun. There are no short-cuts.
Oh, yes. I have trained in lots of other martial arts, so I have some perspective.
Regards,