I know I’m late to the party, but…
My style is Guang Hua Mountain Bagua.
From what I was taught by my instructor (Dr. Fred Ming-an Wu), it is mainly a combination of Gao and Han Mu Sha’s bagua, with variations on some techniques added by some of their highly skilled students.
intellagence..lol
s
coraspawn? He may be the Golden Dragon, but he’s no genius.
Classic case of watching the finger and missing the moon. Take the finger out of your eye, Goldendragon. I told you I wasn’t meaning to be insulting you. There are contradictions even in your version of the Xie line. People were just trying to point you in the right direction and suggesting you keep an open mind. Everywhere you go, teachers have different ideas of how to cover the same material. There are dozens of good Yin bagua teachers in this country. If you can get past the idea that there is only one way and see the importance of basics, you can begin to make bagua yourself.
Sigh. You can lead a brick to water but you can’t make it float…
“Like I said before I think he may have relabaled the systems with animal names but I think the systems existed before that I’ll ask He Jinbao when he comes up (next month I think).”
I know you said it before but you should talk to folks in Beijing. I have and they’ve talked to the Men family. Look, Dr. Xie was a nice old guy so I really don’t want to besmearch his memory but I’m just telling you the truth. If you still like it, fine by me.
“You don’t know your better infact I don’t know you’ve trained for more than a month so quit with your ego “buddy”.”
Buddy is my name son. You are a beginner, I’m better than you. No brag, just fact. Here’s my website www.lungmen.org.
In fact there’s a great deal you don’t know. But ask the board, there’s a number of people who know me here.
"There is this saying “Don’t tell me who your teacher is because if I beat you I’m better and I won’t tell you how long I’ve trained for because if you beat me your better.”
Is that from a fortune cookie?
"It really doesn’t matter how long you’ve trained.
Of course it does.
“We’re not going to fight and the only thing you get from training is skill at fighting.”
But you don’t know anything about me, son. Training is also a great way to meet chicks.
“It will not increace your intellagence or get rid of that nasty ego either.”
I’m sorry I’ve burst your hero-worship bubble. I tell you the truth and you slag me. I don’t expect you to believe me but try to find out for yourself. Go to Empty Flower, go to Jarek’s site, Dragonslist, ask around. But you won’t because you’re afraid I might be right.
“As for my books well I’ve read them several times as well as every article I’ve found on bagua for the past 5 years. if thats not a way to learn other than training than why would you point me to sights with words on them?”
That’s not a way to learn, I thought that was clear. I’ve read all those books as well. I’ve told you where to go. Go to other boards and ask questions. Like I said if you like what you do, great. It’s just not orthodox Yin Fu style. Don’t blame me.
dwid,
Yizong is from Zhang Zhunfeng who was great friends with and was greatly influenced by Wu Menngxia who, as you probably know studied with both Han and Gao. Do you guys do Tian Gan (heavenly stems)?
Buddy
BRAD-you could be right about the Emporer’s longfist being a load of crap, but then you could also be wrong.I found the postures they had for bagua in the diagram to be correct, though the energy of the main strikes didn’t coraspawn (spelling?).
I’m not saying Emporer’s Longfist is a load of crap, just that what they practice is not emporer’s longfist. They DID learn Bagua, Xingyi, and Taiji + some Chin Woo stuff. Emporer’s longfist is a real system, but they don’t practice it… that’s what I’m saying. I have some info about them, but Royal Dragon would be the one to talk to about specifics. Though I did double check some things he told me.
what style
gong bao tian style, to gong bao zhai to eugene chou to me.
Yizong is from Zhang Zhunfeng who was great friends with and was greatly influenced by Wu Menngxia who, as you probably know studied with both Han and Gao. Do you guys do Tian Gan (heavenly stems)?
Well, Dr. Wu died over three years ago now, and I wasn’t very far in my training when he did. Can you describe the Tian Gan? What do they entail? We may have practiced them, but used a different name or something.
I mostly practice the pre-heaven circles and the guang hua circles/palm changes, as that is the material I had the best handle on. I learned a lot of the 64 fighting techniques, which were sort of linear forms, as well as some drills and two man sets.
However, I don’t really trust the linear forms (just a personal preference - nothing against them per se) and I practice alone, so the two man sets are useless to me.
Some day I hope to find another person to train under who comes close to what I had in Dr. Wu.
ha, ha, you so funny! Ya I suck at spelling, what you want a cookie? I’m only saying I’m intrested in what you guys train as far as methods. Like for example I do 45 min of turning every day. I get a lot of crap about what I do but then again most of you didn’t say even that which leads me to believe that you don’t train every day or you only do circle turning. not that just turning is bad it’s the core, but there is other stuff to train like apply your moves and so on.
I didn’t at any point ask “Is Dr. Xie’s style orthodox?” nor do I care what you think about it, but Buddy you are using an ego to say your better, I mean even with MA if I’m faster and stronger that you I’ll beat you. You can’t put tech over all other aspects we still fight in three dimentional space am I right? If you really have trained for 18 or however many years EVERY day than I have no doubt your better. However to rub it in and call someone son (like a want-to-be gangster) is on the egosectric side in my book. And regardles what you think I’ll check your site, oh I have. wow that was fast theres only a page or two on bagua there not much that isn’t in my books, and oh wow your name thats great. well it means crap. because there are Mc dojos dime a dozzen in this country hell I could open one if I wanted to I know how to run stores and open them. After training for 5 years I’d say I’m no longer a newbie your an ass to think so. If you can’t learn from reading then what, do you need someone to read to you? someone said reading the songs (written by Dong) would help your understanding so your saying he’s wrong. also I went to this place called school and they made you learn by reading so I’d have to say you must have missed out on that if you think reading doesn’t help you understand things. Now don’t get confused here I’m not saying that I’m gaining martial skill from reading a book thats absurd.
Drag,
" didn’t at any point ask “Is Dr. Xie’s style orthodox?” nor do I care what you think about it, but Buddy you are using an ego to say your better, I mean even with MA if I’m faster and stronger that you I’ll beat you. "
No, but you took great issue when I brought it up. As I said if you like it, fine. Look, I practiced quite hard for a long time and you haven’t. Ergo, I’m better.
“However to rub it in and call someone son (like a want-to-be gangster) is on the egosectric side in my book.”
I call you son because you are being childish. Also I’m certain I’m quite a bit older than you.
“wow that was fast theres only a page or two on bagua there not much that isn’t in my books, and oh wow your name thats great. well it means crap. because there are Mc dojos dime a dozzen in this country hell I could open one if I wanted to I know how to run stores and open them.”
Did you think I was going to put all my knowlege on a website? I don’t have a school, only a small class of dedicated students. The difference if someone who knew about IMA came to my class they would recognize that I have some stuff. They would see that you have been at it for five years.
“After training for 5 years I’d say I’m no longer a newbie your an ass to think so.”
Well, I’d say five years you should be at the level of being ready to understand what is going on. IOW, a noob.
“If you can’t learn from reading then what, do you need someone to read to you? someone said reading the songs (written by Dong) would help your understanding so your saying he’s wrong.”
Yes I’m saying he’s wrong. Look all those classical writings are preaching to the choir. If you don’t already know all that poetry won’t help a bit. If you already know…
“also I went to this place called school and they made you learn by reading so I’d have to say you must have missed out on that if you think reading doesn’t help you understand things”
Do you think you could learn how to fly an airplane simply by reading? Personally I love to read and its helped me with many things, but I’m glad I went into the water when I wanted to learn to swim.
BTW did you ask anyone else about your style or is blind acceptance more preferable?
dwid,
I’ll try but my teacher shows a few of them on his first vid. The first tiangan is called “ban” or to move. Stand in a really deep wide horse stance. Put one hand behind your back and stretch the other out to the side palm up. Turn to one side in a deep bow stance, AT THE SAME TIME swinging the arm over the head as if pushing something down so that the arm is now facing the same direction as your bow stance palm down. Turn into the opposite bow, remaining very low, sort of dragging the back of the hand along the floor. End up in the other side bow stance by tucking the hips under to raise the torso with the hand doing a kind of plucking (think single whip} in front of the body level to the ground. I emphasize at the same time because this is an exercise to develop whole body movement.
How’s that?
Buddy
BTW my kung fu brother has an excellent site dedicated to Yizong Gaoshi baguazhang at www.yizongbagua.com.
"because there are Mc dojos dime a dozzen in this country hell I could open one if I wanted to I know how to run stores and open them. After training for 5 years I’d say I’m no longer a newbie your an ass to think so. "
Looks like your planning on making some Whoppers. If your math is as bad as your reading comprehension skills? You should abstain from opening “stores”.
Buddy, please give up on GD. Next thing you know you’ll have to fly to his house and make balloon animals in funny poses to explain how his parents made him.
GD-
Stop insulting Buddy, because if you ever did it to his face? It would be my sorry ass that would have to carry tou down four flights of stairs and put you in your car and I’m pretty sure you are the fat, pimply sort of book fu teacher.
Buddy is what he is and I think he was polite to you and gave you solid information. While I understand you got a little sand in yer clam over it, try and be polite.
Best,
Pete
BUDDY–I understand that your being quite understanding and what not but I just don’t take to people talking down to me. That’s what it appeared that you were doing. I never said that I could fly a plane by reading a book but if you read the book you will understand how to go about flying the plane better than if you skipped the book altogether that’s all. Oh and my spelling is bad because I have ADHA, and I’m disslexick(again spelling). I never got good at it, nor do I see any point to looking it up. I can get the spelling close enough to the point that you can all understand what word I mean. As far as the 5 years training, if it were collage I’d have graduated by now(unless I was going to be a Dr.). At my age having only been out of school 5 years that’s about all the years I’ve had so far. I don’t think many others my age have much more hours racked up either. If they do good for them. When I was in school I spent every free min snowboarding and after I was done school I had more free time and started bagua.
BAI HE aka Pete–I’m not saying I’m going to open a dojo and I’m not reading books to learn martial content. I go to class for that. I just mean that to have a website for a school and list it as a place to look for info on an art is not helpful. also this is my topic so if you don’t like it than don’t read it. I am simply stating that this thread was not pertaining to the questions for which it was made. You really can’t tell someone to stop insulting another person and then say things like: “because if you ever did it to his face? It would be my sorry ass that would have to carry you down four flights of stairs and put you in your car and I’m pretty sure you are the fat, pimply sort of book fu teacher.” And expect it too work? Also your first question mark is poor grammer(ya, ya, I know spelling). So you really have no place dissing my spelling. And another thing not that it matters but I’ve got no pimples, I’m 23 for god sake I haven’t had pimples since I was 17 or so. I’m 6’ and 210lbs so if I do bagua 1.5 to 2 hrs EVERY day, you do the math. Am I fat? What ever gave you the idea I’m a teacher? I think it is you that needs to work on your reading comprehension skills.
COUNT—your sites were helpful, thanks.
See,
now you’ve calmed down a bit.
What is the primary focus of your practice right now?
Best,
Pete
hmmmm this tread was very interesting at the begining,
could you get back to the main topic and explain your basics in bagua, that’s very interesting,
as for me, i’m not a bagua adept, so i have nothing to say
drop,
As you see above I described one of the basic whole body power exercises from Gao style. Did it make sense to you?
Buddy
Drag,
"BUDDY–I understand that your being quite understanding and what not but I just don’t take to people talking down to me. "
Sorry but you took issue with my, what I thought was delicate handling of a controversial subject and were rude.
“That’s what it appeared that you were doing. I never said that I could fly a plane by reading a book but if you read the book you will understand how to go about flying the plane better than if you skipped the book altogether that’s all.”
OK fair enough but learning IMA is a whole 'nother thing. I’m not against reading books but frankly none of the ones out in English would help at all learning Baguazhang. Parks would give you some good evercises but you wouldn’t know if you were doing them properly w/o a live teacher. And in that regard one might hurt ones self. Yang’s has nice history (not as good as the Pa Kua Journal) but mostly shows waigong. Would you care to list and comment upon the ones you have read? That might put us on even ground. I’ve read them all.
" Oh and my spelling is bad because I have ADHA, and I’m disslexick(again spelling). I never got good at it, nor do I see any point to looking it up. I can get the spelling close enough to the point that you can all understand what word I mean."
I never commented on your spelling, that was others.
“As far as the 5 years training, if it were collage I’d have graduated by now(unless I was going to be a Dr.). At my age having only been out of school 5 years that’s about all the years I’ve had so far. I don’t think many others my age have much more hours racked up either. If they do good for them. When I was in school I spent every free min snowboarding and after I was done school I had more free time and started bagua.”
Hmmm. Having trained those first five years many years ago I can assure you that you have a very arduous and pleasant time ahead of you. Learning bagua is not addition it’s geometric. It’s like peeling an onion. There is always a higher level and thats a great thing. When I was first starting to “get it” I would gain an understanding and then practice like hell my newly found skill until I became proficient. Then I would get a new and more advanced understanding. And then where before, I thought I was pretty good, all of a sudden I sucked at the new thing. It was depressing. Then I realized, yes I suck. But I suck AT A HIGHER LEVEL. It is still the case. BTW did you try the exercise I described? Have you thought about buying my teachers tape(s) to see what my style looks like? They’re not terrilby expensive and show IMO some of the best Cheng Tinghua bagua on the planet.
Buddy
so this is interesting…irrelevant but interesting…i am not sure that orthodox has any relevance to anything…after all what does the Bagua look like? If Xie Peqi made up the system that he passed on it is only a testament to his geinius and capacity for organized thought. the breadth of YSB is astounding and also from what I have seen truly reflective of the Bagua. which as far as I am concerned is simply an attempt at classifying phenomenea within a logical and qualifyable framework. In this instance an attempt at marking the changes in relationship and possibility in the context of interrelational movement with the intention of gaining advantage over another.
I have spent time around the Dr. both in Beijing and the states. I never saw anything other than respect and perhaps fear from others in relation to the Dr. in Beijing. Personally I have no doubts to the veracity of his claims with Men Bao Jun, regardless he has left behind an art of tremendous depth and quality. One only needs to spend a small amount of time with He Jin Bao to feel the truth of this. Who the people are in Beijing that no better are beyond me and who cares. The biggest trap in martial art is squandering your own potential and ability in speculation about anothers, regardless of what the truth is it means nothing for you. We all have to “drink from the dregs of the elders and extract clear liquid” - ralston.