I was wondering if any could share the basic principals of Bagua?
Also when you practice how many of them to you focus on at a time?
- close with the enemy
- through a combination of qinnah and shuai with foot and hand combinations
- straight line to finish despite circleing as degree of changing (actually as the enemy changes), with knowing how to stop his change and keep yours
- all MA have the above methods but how do you enforce?
- hard to quantify. each individual consciousness determines which art MAY be better. The functionality in circling is subtle and is one part. conditioning can allow you to cut through any BS art, even baquazhang.
i started with TKD, did some karate (Okinawa) doing taijiquan (consistently) and do baquazhang circle walking when i feel lazy. i integrate alot of concepts/principles keeping in mind both taijiquan and paquazhang practitioners rarely exhibut skill but they do performance. the few who do martial taijiquan and baquazhang are few and far between. how did i get some skill? i watch learn/integrate, never go to a gunfight with a stick and run like hell, if necessary.
why not stick to things you train in?
No offense but you seem to post more than train.
understand the three points within a circle and you will understand the art of walking in circles to move straight ahead. 
Gao Bagua Principles…
Qing Qing Liang Yi Understand Yin and Yang
Ming Ming san Jie Clear the 3 sections
Qi Qi Si Shao Work the 4 ends together
Quan Quan Wu Xing Use all the 5 elements
He He liu He Coordinate the 6 harmony
Gu Gu Qi Xing Take care of the 7 stars
Lian Lian Ba Gua Connect the 8 Gua
Bei Bei Jiu Gong Keep the 9 palaces
This is great…thank you for your sharing…
There was one who seems to be a bagua man but he did not share an principals?
I wonder if he has any?
basic bagua principal? CHANGE.
might i ask what you mean by basic principal?
[QUOTE=KTS;967865]basic bagua principal? CHANGE.
might i ask what you mean by basic principal?[/QUOTE]
Excellent post!!!
well, if u arent being sarcastic, thanks. but, change is really the base for bagua.
bagua zhang focuses on fluid movements from strike to clinch to throw, and generally in that order. very fluid with not much repositioning needed to change the circumstance to be much more favorable for the BGZ fighter.
bagua, at it’s heart, is pretty simple in nature and concept. that simplicity is what gives rise to more complex movements in an easy, fluid manner.
the fact that bagua doesnt just focus on one technique ending with either success or failure and then having to use another technique, is part of what makes it a special art. it was made, developed, and continues to develope with adapting and changing in mind. principals are more important here than training one movement for one or two purposes. and one movement flows into the next with ease once you get the “hang” of it.
in bagua, a strike is never “just” a strike.
ability to change is at the heart of BGZ.
hope that helps ya.
Bagua Tips
Look up www.BaguaKungfu.com for more details and other links to elite Bagua Professionals.
For some tips…Yin Style to be specific…is based on trigram system consisting of 8 Animals. They are:
- Lion (Father)
- Dragon
- Bear
- Phoenix
- Rooster
- Monkey
- Snake
- Kirin (Mother)
Yin Style particularly usually focuses on tight circles of providing a full 360 movement around the assailant within four steps (thats if he doesnt fall within the first step!). Other Bagua styles are 6 to 8 steps…making the circle larger and having more in-between steps around your opponents.
Most practitioners can only learn one animal (mostly Lion) or at least focus on one animal to attempt to perfect it. It is rare to find a Bagua Master that knows them all. So far I have only found He Jinbao and Kuan Wang to currently posses all knowledge of all animals or at least able to practice all eight animals. Each animal has about 56 or so forms! Then when you hybrid them together, you now have an ingredient of something magical and unexplainable. Which allows you to be extremely adaptive and able to frequently change to many positions on demand. Since its so hard to accomplish all 56 forms of each animal accurately, most of the time, there are only four main animals taught to the public - Lion, Dragon, Bear and Phoenix.
Each characteristic of the animals are genuine and build up organs internally and aid in establishing stronger joints. Also, there are techniques to build up the central sulcus (center of the brain) to accept blows to the top of the head and methods on tucking in your man hood to endure crotch strikes! Certain techniques emphasizes on making foam in your mouth to keep you from being dehydrated in long duration battles. The science of it all has a natural phenomena and can lead to a Kundalini experience (receiving the all seeing third eye…extra sense of wisdom and more).
Normally it is best to find a disciple of He Jinbao before you would interact with the grand carrier himself. Training is very hard if taught correctly and usually when you meet He Jinbao, he would expect you to do the lion circle for over an hour at minimum…not really having patience for the beginner.
There is so much to explain and so much to be taught that responding to forums would never be enough. Check out the link and if you have questions, I see if I can answer them the best to my knowledge. If not…I have a close knit instructor that does have all the answers regarding to Bagua. So Enter the Circle and visit BaguaKungfu.com and http://www.yinstylebaguazhang.com/
The more you learn of the internal science of Yin Style Baguazhang, the more spontaneous and unpredictable you are as a fighter. We all can agree, the most dominant fighter is one that is unpredictable, specially when he circles behind you!
3DeeMonk
www.BaguaKungfu.com
How has this changing art changed, or evolved/developed, to remain relevant as we approach 2010?
What are folks doing and working on?
changing when needed.
also training with modern weapons as well as the the tradition BIG weapons to develop whole body power and coordination.
Baguazhang is based on being able to adapt to whatever situation you encounter.
[QUOTE=uki;967242]understand the three points within a circle and you will understand the art of walking in circles to move straight ahead. :)[/QUOTE]
Just an observation, but this is sort of a contradiction. I watched a video of a young man walking around a tree. First one way and then the other. What would be gained by this?
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;974667]Just an observation, but this is sort of a contradiction. I watched a video of a young man walking around a tree. First one way and then the other. What would be gained by this?[/QUOTE]
The act of movement done according to bagua principals is very valuable for building a specific sort of balance in motion.
The actual martial art portion of baguazhang is generally encapsulated in the change of direction from counter-clockwise to clockwise or vice versa.
This direction change is similar or the same as a change of lead hand or lead foot in more linear arts.
Depending on the complexity of the change a bagua person may rotate 360+ degrees in the process of a change.. which provides a challenge for balance and all sorts of neat options for throws and power generation.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;974614]How has this changing art changed, or evolved/developed, to remain relevant as we approach 2010?
What are folks doing and working on?[/QUOTE]
One thing that has changed is the “prior experience in another martial art” recommendation has shifted. Now in the West we are getting students who may have bagua as their first martial art.. but they may already be adept at some other classical art (like dance) or one of the “new body” methods (like parkour).
I encourage this trend myself. I want all the freaks to do bagua. It’s the best way to encourage diversity and the survival of the stuff.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;974614]How has this changing art changed, or evolved/developed, to remain relevant as we approach 2010?
What are folks doing and working on?[/QUOTE]
i dont think it really needs to change. humans have not changed physically, so no need to really change baguazhang.
perhaps the way it is taught may have changed though. many teachers of 50 years ago or before than would teach in just a certain style. some would never answer any questions, or show something just once or twice. it is a bit different now. and the further releasing of info which used to be kept more privately is another difference.
edit: as long as people need to stay fit, or fight eachother, or grow as a person, etc, it will remain relevant.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;974614]How has this changing art changed, or evolved/developed, to remain relevant as we approach 2010?
What are folks doing and working on?[/QUOTE]
There is so much in the Bagua curriculum that youll quickly grasp that the learning never stops, no matter how much effort or moments of practicing. There are always enlightenment of biomechanics, energy, speed, power, mind, balance, and the attempts to be a coherent unit of distributing all these characteristics throughout the body. The art itself changes on how the art is challenged by the practitioner. The aspiring seeker would make additive changes whether its with the environment setting(fighting the elements), more weight added when performing the forms, and provide muscle and mental confusion to keep building up your chi, exterior and interior bodily foundations.
Good example is the prominent student who practices Bagua through various drills to emphasize and isolate their weakness is to challenge your body like a tool to only make discoveries to prolong, build up and overcome the difficult aspects of your training. Pretty much what doesnt kill you only makes you stronger. The student who truly tests and gets creative on top of what is RIGHTFULLY taught only surpasses and reconcile the frequent changes of Baguazhang. You cant have a student walk around circles and practice vaguely to be a champion. The one who goes the extra mile are those who doctor and expand Baguazhang, thus adding on the historical foundation and creating your own avenue of kundalini with Baguazhang. You cant have an artist paint with one brush his/her whole life. Soon he/she finds out other techniques and materials he/she can use to attain a more elaborate, more effective, well diverse mosaic outcome. It is the same with Baguazhang. Your question also refers to how Baguazhang revolved to be relevant of modern day living…there is simple answer to that concern. To preserve what is tradition and to practice with what is modern only makes you more sufficient and adaptive to something new (doesnt have to relate to fighting at all!). The time to truly know one self is the time to truly understand what surrounds you. Only then the ever transcending epiphanies of reality becomes more vibrant to you.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;974667]Just an observation, but this is sort of a contradiction. I watched a video of a young man walking around a tree. First one way and then the other. What would be gained by this?[/QUOTE]
There is more than what meets the eye. To accurately register a physical substitution of an assailant and to change your direction off a focal point builds up diversity in your strides. Provides understanding of balance of different formations of your body to different oddly shaped trees (compare to a low branch as to a straight tree trunk). Low branches offer you to get lower but not lose balance and have knees not pass toes, ducking the branch while maintaining balance with a low gravitational center. The bark of the tree roughens forearms and legs when implementing roll over techniques.
You dont get dizzy since you also build up durability with constant rotation. When you do get dizzy quicker than usual, that is an early sign of you getting sick…allowing you to quickly identify something wrong with yourself since you fully comprehend your body. You can with stand vertigo.
Perform different strikes to each step you take. Generate torque from the core of your waist to your limbs while trying to maintain balance, deliver a blow, provide strength and speed all at the same time. There are training establishments that have you walk around multiple poles/trees, resembling to a crowd of people to maneuver with. Anyone who will do the straight forward, typical boxing traits of attacking…would have a huge wake up call when you quickly can place yourself behind the guy, diverting his intent which provides control off of any movements from your opponents tendencies.
Much more realization of this drill comes to surface, instead of asking questions, you must try. Get some one to properly teach you and provide ideas to expand the use of walking around a tree. Then try it with weapons…try it holding an empty gun (I like to change it up and use modern weapons with traditional combat techniques…I use shot gun), familiarize and challenge the art, yourself, the weapon and your elements. Get comfortable with whatever is thrown at you. Dont take my word for it…get up and put that remote down and push yourself to the limit to find that you have no limits…
There is more to it than walking around trees…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gIvq2BXzzg
Video is not too hot but the idea of Bagua implemented with multiple opponents is there. Its so unorthodox, so adaptive that you can only absorb its effectiveness. Hope this provides light to those who are new and in the dark.
[QUOTE=3DeeMonk;975150]There is more to it than walking around trees…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gIvq2BXzzg
Video is not too hot but the idea of Bagua implemented with multiple opponents is there. Its so unorthodox, so adaptive that you can only absorb its effectiveness. Hope this provides light to those who are new and in the dark.[/QUOTE]
This is a GREAT drill, especially if done with moderate or stronger contact.
Sorry to OT slightly: our ZRM has a drill we call the “bar fight drill.” It’s similar to this, only the defender changes after 3 attacks. Say in a group of six people, #1 is the defender. #2 attacks #1, who attempts to deal with it. The rest count 3 seconds, and then another person attacks - usually the person closest, let’s say #4. #1 again attempts to deal; if he hasn’t resolved the engagement with #2, he’s now forced to deal with both #2 AND #4. Everyone else counts 3 seconds, and then a third person attacks - say #6. Again, if #1 hasn’t been able to resolve the other encounters, he may be faced with all 3 attackers. If, however, #1 manages to deal with all 3, HE now becomes an aggressor - choosing to attack one of the 3 that didn’t attack him. For instance, if he (#1) attacks #5, then #5 becomes the defender, and #1 becomes the first attacker. Everyone else counts 3 seconds between attacks, while 2 other people attack #5. When #5 has had 3 attacks, he now goes on the offense, attacking someone who didn’t play this round. The drill continues in this way until everyone’s had at least one go at being the defender. Even better, keep going until everyone’s limp.
It’s a crazy fun drill, unfortunately our problem of late has been getting enough people at that level together at the same time. If you have enough people to try it, I totally recommend this variation.