What MMA did to Kung FU

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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[QUOTE=dimethylsea;1042690]

  1. “magic hubud”/tapping/back-and-forth for flow and reactivity, [/QUOTE]
    The best method for flow and reactivity is to do the same types of movements you will do for real. You rarely see any kind of hubud type movements when going full out. What you do see is clinch work.

target hitting and test-cutting (to REALLY figure out what you can do with a sharp thingie) are all good stuff.

How many times have you practiced stabbing something that resembles the body with various types of clothing on it and then measured the penetration? If you haven’t, you probably don’t have the best idea of what you can realistically do. You’d be surprised at how knife blades can get caught up in clothing, especially when you are trying to do the old fantasy cut and slice.

I am NOT impressed by people who think the gold path to FMA skill is free-on sparring. You need way more than a scrum to get good.

It’s not the gold path, but it sure is a large part of it.

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[QUOTE=dimethylsea;1042690]
It’s worth noting that FMA didn’t need much in the way of “test cutting” when people worked on farms clearing brush with their bolos and actually USING the sharps daily. [/QUOTE]

BTW, speaking of test cutting, just because someone is a FMA “master” doesn’t mean he isn’t delusional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlybPPTAvx4&feature=related

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1042710]BTW, speaking of test cutting, just because someone is a FMA “master” doesn’t mean he isn’t delusional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlybPPTAvx4&feature=related[/QUOTE]

He tried to do that trick that so many sword guys do that is to strike with a curved blade, which TENDS to only cut on the pull, and it backfired on his ass.
LOL !

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042584]Sure it does, I’ve fought MMA/VT in which the ONLY rule was Obey the ref, when he says stop, you stop.
I’ve also fought were there were no rules and had guys try to bite, eye gouge, kick and even bite the groin, LOL !
And what works in MMA NOW, was what worked then VS those types.
And I am NOT alone in that observation.

Sure MMA has more rules NOW, but just walk into ANY MMA gym or BJJ school and drop a challenge for no rules and you will find a willing partner for your experiments.
[/QUOTE]

word… as far as empty hand one on one combat, these hybrids created for mma are taking the lead… basics and a serious work ethic gets you pretty far…

you have guys who can stand with you and dance outside then come in swinging, you react and they change levels on you so fast you dont even know youre going down untill youre down there… and then what…

and standup in mma is evolved to a point where it guards those levels and that fact changes when and how you can commit… if you dont get that, you go down… not to mention the standup of some mma cats is wold class in its own right alot of the time…

i love tcma, dont get me wrong, but it is not the end all complete answer for any one on one empty hand combative situation… some people believe it is and are too offended when others disagree…

its all good, we can talk about this right???

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If someone comes along and points out a better way of doing something and proves it, why would ANYONE be offended by it or not use it?

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042720]If someone comes along and points out a better way of doing something and proves it, why would ANYONE be offended by it or not use it?[/QUOTE]

Because it threatens their belief system. No different than the BJJ guys who think that striking and takedowns are over-rated.

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kung fu can exist because north americans live in state of perpetual childhood. when they refer to kung fu is “playing the form” “kung fu player”.
kung fu people come to play like children. thats why they will never want to fight EVER. fighting drives fear into hearts of people like them.
passive aggresive north americans with revenge fantasies are asking to be taken advantage of.

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1042723]Because it threatens their belief system. No different than the BJJ guys who think that striking and takedowns are over-rated.[/QUOTE]

as a general rule, people have trouble wrapping their minds around the many possible things that can happen in a fight/MMA

people always want the “magic bullet” - they ask “are punches better than kicks” or “is grappling better than striking”

I guess it might be a defense mechanism, avoiding the reality that to “fight” you have so much to learn and must use your brains and strategy…

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what did mma do to kungfu?

it held kungfu down and gave the love by force, then it told kungfu it had a pretty mouth.

but kungfu does have a pretty mouth, and also a lot of love to share.

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iron eagle,

If someone is practicing forms for the sole reason of enjoyment and exercise, and know and are told by their instructor that these are not beneficial for martial and fighting skill, that is one thing. Totally different when they are sold a load of BS about secret techniques and doing forms alone making them able to competently fight or defend themselves. That is where the line needs to be drawn.

agreed, however this thread as well as alot of people on here, sound they joined a TCMA school and got taken advantage of, or been lied to.
Thats too bad but to make sweeping genralizations is just plain silly.

like the kids who ask who will win a fight a boxer or a wreslter.. these are really stupid questions.

and know and are told by their instructor that these are not beneficial for martial and fighting skill, that is one thing.

however I gotta disagree here though because learning a form and pratcing its actual applications as well as improving your endurance, speed, agility, timing, hand eye cordination, balance and foundation ARE beneficial for martial and fighting skill.

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[QUOTE=TenTigers;1042588]sorry, but that is asinine.
Learn the move, practice it with graduating levels of resistance, THEN, learn the form. What you said is a competely backwards method of teaching Gung-Fu.[/QUOTE]

Be as it may, what he said is exactly what 99% of kung fu schools do

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[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1042729]
however I gotta disagree here though because learning a form and pratcing its actual applications as well as improving your endurance, speed, agility, timing, hand eye cordination, balance and foundation ARE beneficial for martial and fighting skill.[/QUOTE]

No they aren’t. And this is a perfect demonstration of how TMA’s are still ripping people off.

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[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1042731]No they aren’t. And this is a perfect demonstration of how TMA’s are still ripping people off.[/QUOTE]

really.

how do you do drills? how do you show structure? how do you teach body balance as applicable to martial arts?

I think you got your blinders on again.

forms are part of training in chinese martial arts, whether you like it or not and regardless of your opinion.

they are not the be all and end all, but they don’t lack value overall.

besides, they look cooler than ground hugs for 15 minutes before choking someone out. :stuck_out_tongue:

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a lot chinese kung fu people arent willing to accept mma because they think its a race thing. i dont get why the white ppls are clinging to kung fu i dont see any reason

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soco,

Be as it may, what he said is exactly what 99% of kung fu schools do

come one really dude? you have visited 99% of the kung fu schools in north America? or just the world… sometimes its better to stick to the facts when you say things, its makes for a better discussion.

David J, when ignorant people like this guy say absolutly ubsurd things like this…

No they aren’t. And this is a perfect demonstration of how TMA’s are still ripping people off.

to my repsonse to iron eagle was

however I gotta disagree here though because learning a form and pratcing its actual applications as well as improving your endurance, speed, agility, timing, hand eye cordination, balance and foundation ARE beneficial for martial and fighting skill.

why do you even bother to reply? its like arguing with a 2 year old, hit the ignore button, is he really worth even responding too?
If ANYONE out here doesnt think that training, endurance, speed, agility, timing, hand eye cordination, balance and foundation ARE beneficial for martial and fighting skill, they need to take up cooking lessons and get the Fukc off this board.

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[QUOTE=bawang;1042735]a lot chinese kung fu people arent willing to accept mma because they think its a race thing. i dont get why the white ppls are clinging to kung fu i dont see any reason[/QUOTE]

people of any race who don’t “do” should reserve comment.

all the kungfu guys i know for real accept mma for what it is and have even adopted some of the methods that are in the training regimens of mixed martial artists that they didn’t have in their chosen martial art.

hey, if it wasn’t for tma, there would be NO mma.

it’s a constant journey and the journey is change.

being stuck in your ways is the worst enemy to any martial artist.

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i disagree wit u man. this talk of constant change is bs. ur biased from schitzophrenic north american culture. punching a man in the face is punching a man in the face.

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[QUOTE=IronFist;1042631]This.

It shattered the following illusions that were (are) commonly held my TMA’ists:

  • There are secret techniques you can do to stop much larger opponents (how many ads for these secret systems did you see in the backs of MA mags in the 80s and 90s?)

  • Forms give you a large arsenal of effective fighting techniques

  • You can practice alone and then be adequately prepared to fight a resisting opponent

  • 10-hit combos are an effective defense against a punch (because attackers leave their arms out there after throwing said punch)

  • Size doesn’t matter

  • Strength doesn’t matter

  • Don’t worry about grapplers, you can stop a takedown with a knee to the face

  • Your out of shape instructor is “too deadly” to spar with you

There are a lot more, but that’s a good list.
[/quote]

There are still a LOT of people that cling to these though. Like, A LOT…

Before MMA, I lived in this delusional world created by martial arts myths that I learned in Karate class as a kid. One myth was that I was actually able to competently defend myself because I had karate training.

After 10 minutes in an MMA class, my entire reality had changed. Years of myths and BS and “MA social conditioning” were wiped away. It was a little depressing; all I wanted from MA was to be an effective fighter, and I had been doing everything wrong.

I actually found that same moment rather refreshing. Like when you wake up and your eyes are all foggy so you throw cold water on your face and go look outside and everything is superawesome

For years:

Studying forms for secret techniques? Worthless for actual fighting.

Size and strength? Phenomenally important (unless the other person is a COMPLETE noob)

Your out of shape instructor? Never been in a fight a day in his life.

10-hit combos? Worthless. Real opponents that are actually trying to hit you don’t leave their arms out there waiting for you.

Grapplers will gladly eat your knee to the face (with which you will probably miss, anyway) to take you down and dominate you within 10 seconds, especially if you don’t know what you’re doing on the ground).

If you’ve never trained against a resisting opponent then it doesn’t matter even if you’ve trained hours a day for years; you will lose to a boxer with 1 month of training.

And yet those former kung fu brothers still try to tell us we were missing something or didn’t understand, all the while they keep drinking the kool aid…

79

as far as one on one empty hand, why not just learn all the ranges of fighting and try it out for yourself to see how well it works… try it against different styles… go roll with a bjj cat, go have a kickboxing match with a kickboxer, go try and take down a judoka, box a boxer, maybe find some well rounded opponents who do well in mma and try against them… whoever you find, try to get people who are as different from you as possible, like if youre a bak mei guy, dont go against lung ying guys and think you are crosstraining… in the end if it works it works if it doesnt it doesnt… only one way to find out tho…

also if you still dont wanna go contact atleast do padwork… good pad work… not just kicking bob or trapping a wooden dummy… i mean intricate moving targets of varying size and whatnot… muaythai style…

i’d also like to add that you cant rely on tricks that only work once… ok they are cool to have and will work sometimes but this cannot be your bread and butter…

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also it has to do with emasculation of chinese culture combined with materilism nihilism and hedonism.

the feminine and h0m0sexual wing chun being the most popular stlye of kung fu in the entire world says it all