What mma did to kung fu was was a very good thing. It essentially broke fighting down into three ranges: striking, standing grappling, and ground fighting. Fighting had always been in these ranges but mma trained the skills of each range specifically. Whether or not each fighter develops skills in all ranges and is freely able to combine them is up to each individual. MMA trains these skill sets without years of forms training and two-man form training. Skills are learned in months instead of years and each person can see himself improving unlike in the Kung fu paradigm. In the kung fu paradigm often forms replace belts.
MMA reintroduced to Kung fu what bare bones fight training looks like instead of what animals may look like and feel like when engaging in combat. Some would argue that Kung fu training was like current mma training but this argument is destroyed by the word “was”. Kung fu says this: “This move can be this technique or this or this. Imagine the technique while doing the form and after that we’ll try some of the moves.”
MMA says, “Let’s train this technique by actually doing it and then do it against someone resisting.”.
How I’ve modified my training:
- Less time doing forms.
- More conditioning.
- Less emphasis on trapping.
- More training against resisting opponents and less time on compliant short hand drills.
- More time getting hit.
- Less sensitivity exercises.
- More learning sensitivity by reacting to resisting opponents.
Most of what I posted were things that I’ve subtracted fromnmy training. How has mma changed your training? Has it changed at all? Why or why not.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1042523]How has mma changed your training? Has it changed at all? Why or why not.[/QUOTE]
When you throw a matchbox in the air and hit it, that matchbox will fly away. When you put a matchbox on the ground, even a 5 years old can step on and smash it. When you take someone down to the ground, and hit him when the hard ground is belind his head, your punching power will go all the way into his skull. This is just common sense in CMA and not any new idea from MMA.
[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1042523]snip
How I’ve modified my training:
- Less time doing forms.
- More conditioning.
- Less emphasis on trapping.
- More training against resisting opponents and less time on compliant short hand drills.
- More time getting hit.
- Less sensitivity exercises.
- More learning sensitivity by reacting to resisting opponents.
[/QUOTE]
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as you advance, you should not do forms really much at all except to give them to someone else.
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YOu should always be doing conditioning from day one.
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wing chun? lol
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no brainer, compliance is for first off demo to see the tech, after that it is drilled in free form.
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not necessary, but if you like that sort of thing, good for you.
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again, these are beginner concepts to understand when and where to react to someone else pressing on you or moving away, etc.
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S.O.P if you are advanced
None of what you are doing really differs from what kungfu practice is.
I find it funny how people to this day confuse performance wu shu with chinese pugilistic arts.
MMA draws everything they have from outside. mma is not a style, it’s a mix of styles and frankly it doesn’t matter what style, it matters how you train and it matter how tenacious you are.
These lines of division are false and put up by those with closed minds.
As martial arts have been around forever, it is only fools who go on about one thing being better than another. That’s arguing from ignorance and it happens a lot from mma guys who cherry pick some fruit loop with a weird outlook as their example of what kungfu is or is not.
hahaha. Goofs is what they are, don’t fall into that trap. Train your kungfu properly.
Guys who draw the line and hold themselves up as better…well those guys have other motivations.
Most of the even keeled guys I know that practice mma as their thing are all to happy to grab some tidbit out of any martial art. they naturally gravitate towards those arts that are used competitively and that makes sense because that’s what mma does. competes.
MMA I feel hasnt changed kung fu at all, but changed perspoective but it depends on what your training for.
I find that majority of MMA guys are young and looking to get into fighting for sport competition or for a living and thats cool for them, but there are many other reasons people train in Kung fu other than the basic element of fighting.
So if you are looking to improve your flexability, learn an art form, , study the culture, continute the lineage, get into shape, practice mediatation, learn internally, incresease concentration and focus etc etc, thier are many many reasons people study kung fu. there is only a couple people study MMA.
I have 30 -40 year old students do you think they want to roll around on the mat? I have 20 year old students the wrestling class, do you think they want to learn forms?
different strokes for different folks.
BTW 8 step praying mantis is made up of 14 other styles so it is a mixed martial art as well, but its still called kung fu. leave it to america to coin mixed martial art and think this is new
MMA gives EVERY MA a venue to test his COMPLETE arsenal, period.
The rest is up to the individual.
just throwing this out there but who thinks MMA changed boxing?
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1042567]just throwing this out there but who thinks MMA changed boxing?[/QUOTE]
Besides being a venue for some name boxers to make some cash on the side?
Not at all, as it did NOT change DIRECTLY Kickboxing, MT, Judo, or any other established SPORT combat system.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042563]MMA gives EVERY MA a venue to test his COMPLETE arsenal, period.
The rest is up to the individual.[/QUOTE]
well, not including weapons of any variety.
some ma are strictly weapon based.
Many people focus on the difference in technique between Kung Fu styles and MMA. I don’t think this is a correct way of looking at it. The technique of all styles is good. What makes it great is when you drill it relentlessly and then apply it in high pressure situations. This is why i think many people consider MMA to be more successful in combat. I don’t think its that the techniques are better, its the training methodology. And its not better per say, but its suited to combat. If you took a kung fu style, focused on a few of your fave techniques and practiced it like they do in an MMA class, then it would be very successful too.
I don’t think MMA has changed KungFu but i think it has changed the training methodology that people use. People are more aware of how techniques need to be practiced if you want to apply them successfully.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042563]MMA gives EVERY MA a venue to test his COMPLETE arsenal, period.
The rest is up to the individual.[/QUOTE]
Come on Ronin you know thats not strictly true. I mean If you changed just one rule say for example allowing strikes to the groin it would COMPLETELY change the stance and footwork and kicking technique of MMA combat. I mean, everyone leaves the groin open the whole time. I think that small change you would see stances and footwork becoming a lot more ‘traditional’.
It would change the grappling a bit too…Have you ever seen those ancient greek statues… when they’re wrestling one guy is always clawing the other guys junk. (actually scratch that, maybe they wern’t really wrestling, never know with the ancient greeks)
The point is MMA doesn’t allow you to test your COMPLETE arsenal… but it does get you to test your WILL POWER which i think is the most important weapon.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1042580]Come on Ronin you know thats not strictly true. I mean If you changed just one rule say for example allowing strikes to the groin it would COMPLETELY change the stance and footwork and kicking technique of MMA combat. I mean, everyone leaves the groin open the whole time. I think that small change you would see stances and footwork becoming a lot more ‘traditional’.
It would change the grappling a bit too…Have you ever seen those ancient greek statues… when they’re wrestling one guy is always clawing the other guys junk. (actually scratch that, maybe they wern’t really wrestling, never know with the ancient greeks)
The point is MMA doesn’t allow you to test your COMPLETE arsenal… but it does get you to test your WILL POWER which i think is the most important weapon.[/QUOTE]
Sure it does, I’ve fought MMA/VT in which the ONLY rule was Obey the ref, when he says stop, you stop.
I’ve also fought were there were no rules and had guys try to bite, eye gouge, kick and even bite the groin, LOL !
And what works in MMA NOW, was what worked then VS those types.
And I am NOT alone in that observation.
Sure MMA has more rules NOW, but just walk into ANY MMA gym or BJJ school and drop a challenge for no rules and you will find a willing partner for your experiments.
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[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1042523] Kung fu says this: “This move can be this technique or this or this. Imagine the technique while doing the form and after that we’ll try some of the moves.”
[/QUOTE]
sorry, but that is asinine.
Learn the move, practice it with graduating levels of resistance, THEN, learn the form. What you said is a competely backwards method of teaching Gung-Fu.
@ Ronin
Ok, fair enough.
I still think it would change the game quite a bit, but your probably right, I’m sure a lot of people would accept a no rules challenge… Although there have always been places to find that kind of action.
saavy,
How I’ve modified my training:
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Less time doing forms.
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More conditioning.
-
Less emphasis on trapping.
-
More training against resisting opponents and less time on compliant short hand drills.
-
More time getting hit.
-
Less sensitivity exercises.
-
More learning sensitivity by reacting to resisting opponents.
-
why did you give up the flavor of your paticular stlye? forms are the core
applications of your style be proud of them, maybe focus on the application of each
individual move instead of the whole form
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you should have been conditioning all along
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why? trapping is an enssentional part for controlling your oppnent.
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you must perfect the tech with a partner who is willing to help you understand
the dynamics of the movement, then perform it on a resisting opponet to make
sure it works
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LOL the goal is not to GET hit, why on earth would you spend more time getting
hit, conditioning your face by getting punched is not a good idea.
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when you can read your oppents (Yi) intent its is that much easier to overcome
them, every fighter telepgrahs thier intent, its up to you to train how to read it
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same as above.
PS when we trained MMA for the UFC we rolled around practcing tech with non resiting opponentss until the tech was learned then we tried it out resisting oppents… this is no diffrent than kung fu, karate, boxing, tae kwon do or wrestling
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042584]
I’ve also fought were there were no rules and had guys try to bite, eye gouge, kick and even bite the groin, LOL !
[/QUOTE]
Whoah! surely thats gotta be a match finisher… I mean who continues fighting with Mauled Nads?
I think the whole eye gauging thing is over rated… I tried to do it to a guy once but he screwed his eyes up so tight i couldn’t get my thumb in…And even with his eyes closed he could still grapple. I’ve always had a lot of success with biting and a swift backhand slap to the nuts though.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1042588]sorry, but that is asinine.
Learn the move, practice it with graduating levels of resistance, THEN, learn the form. What you said is a competely backwards method of teaching Gung-Fu.[/QUOTE]
A$$-backwards or not I have heard this in more than one place.
How’s the new school location doing for you? Come to think of it…I’m not sure where your old school was but the question still stands. Ha.
Has anyone ordered Chinese food from you yet?
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1042580]
The point is MMA doesn’t allow you to test your COMPLETE arsenal… [/QUOTE]
And neither does traditional training. At least MMA lets you train the main weapons at full force.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1042563]MMA gives EVERY MA a venue to test his COMPLETE arsenal, period.
The rest is up to the individual.[/QUOTE]
True.
Unless your arsenal includes:
(1) Butting with the head.
(2) Eye gouging of any kind.
(3) Biting.
(4) Hair pulling.
(5) Fishhooking.
(6) Groin attacks of any kind.
(7) Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
(8) Small joint manipulation.
(9) Striking to the spine or back of head.
(10) Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (Arcing elbow strikes are
permitted).
(11) Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation grabbing the trachea.
(12) Clawing, twisting or pinching the flesh.
(13) Grabbing the clavicle.
(14) Kicking the head of a grounded opponent..
(15) Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
(16) Stomping on a grounded opponent.
(17) Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
http://aco.ohio.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PFdSUupAIJM%3D&tabid=58
:o
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1042580]Come on Ronin you know thats not strictly true. I mean If you changed just one rule say for example allowing strikes to the groin it would COMPLETELY change the stance and footwork and kicking technique of MMA combat. I mean, everyone leaves the groin open the whole time. I think that small change you would see stances and footwork becoming a lot more ‘traditional’.
It would change the grappling a bit too…Have you ever seen those ancient greek statues… when they’re wrestling one guy is always clawing the other guys junk. (actually scratch that, maybe they wern’t really wrestling, never know with the ancient greeks)
.[/QUOTE]
What MMA did was change fantasy thinking like this for more people. These days, fewer people believe this fantasy.
[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1042609]True.
Unless your arsenal includes:
(1) Butting with the head.
(2) Eye gouging of any kind.
(3) Biting.
(4) Hair pulling.
(5) Fishhooking.
(6) Groin attacks of any kind.
(7) Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
(8) Small joint manipulation.
(9) Striking to the spine or back of head.
(10) Striking downward using the point of the elbow. (Arcing elbow strikes are
permitted).
(11) Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation grabbing the trachea.
(12) Clawing, twisting or pinching the flesh.
(13) Grabbing the clavicle.
(14) Kicking the head of a grounded opponent..
(15) Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
(16) Stomping on a grounded opponent.
(17) Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
http://aco.ohio.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PFdSUupAIJM%3D&tabid=58
:o[/QUOTE]
And neither does traditional training. The difference is with traditional training you fantasize that you will somehow be able to pull those things off.