This came to my mind on another thread.
I have heard SO many people talk about crappy TCMA schools, bad instructors, silk pajamma’s, schools that teach forms and no fighting yadda yadda.
Please tell me where you get your point of view or how did you reach your opinion? based on what?
how many schools you have joined?
how many schools you have enrolled in and spent longer than a year in?
how many websites you looked at?
how many other people have you swayed your opionon because of what they said?
ie. bandwagon jumping
My point is alot of people on here base thier opinions and make sweeping assumptions about something so broad you could’nt possible do it if you spent your life pursuing it.
So how do people speak for the entuire TCMA world based soley on a few bad expereicnes?
If you live in Oklahoma and theres 1 kung fu school in your town and it suckes why say all kung fu schools suck bazsed on your expereicne? how could you possible say or base your opinion without visting ALL the schools in the US? please answer honestly
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047541]This came to my mind on another thread.
I have heard SO many people talk about crappy TCMA schools, bad instructors, silk pajamma’s, schools that teach forms and no fighting yadda yadda.
Please tell me where you get your point of view or how did you reach your opinion? based on what?
how many schools you have joined?
how many schools you have enrolled in and spent longer than a year in?
how many websites you looked at?
how many other people have you swayed your opionon because of what they said?
ie. bandwagon jumping
My point is alot of people on here base thier opinions and make sweeping assumptions about something so broad you could’nt possible do it if you spent your life pursuing it.
So how do people speak for the entuire TCMA world based soley on a few bad expereicnes?
If you live in Oklahoma and theres 1 kung fu school in your town and it suckes why say all kung fu schools suck bazsed on your expereicne? how could you possible say or base your opinion without visting ALL the schools in the US? please answer honestly[/QUOTE]
From the other thread:
The “assumptions” are based on the fact that 95% of all kung fu schools have nothing but forms and demos as any kind of evidence of what they do in training. Combine that with the fact that you’ve got a pretty big group of yahoos who claim they train without gear with “street without rules” techniques and take said techniques from the forms, and you’ve got a pretty good case for making this kind of assumption.
Nothings specifically really formed my opinion i just realize there is some good and some bad, theres been garbage and quality stuff in martial arts for centuries
I honestly would love to hear these answers, its like going to a returant that serves thai, not liking it and saying all thai food is spicey and it sux, without visting other thai resturants. a litte unfair dont you think?
exacly, go ju, but why do others say there no fighting in Kung fu , its all forms, TCMA cant fight, we dont use technique on reisisting oppnents, etc etc
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047551]I honestly would love to hear these answers, its like going to a returant that serves thai, not liking it and saying all thai food is spicey and it sux, without visting other thai resturants. a litte unfair dont you think?[/QUOTE]
More like knowing that Thai food tends to have a certain spiciness and knowing that you are allergic to spicy foods.
You can get a pretty good feel for what Thai food tastes like by going to a few Thai restaurants. Then, when you find out that Thai food uses the same kinds of ingredients in their dishes, you can make an intelligent assumption about it without visiting every Thai restaurant in the world.
Personally I try not to make judgement calls on any style or system until I have seen or experienced it first hand. I have met some great Kung Fu players and some bad ones. I think the argument concerning Kung Fu as compared to MMA is the fact that Kung Fu schools are not producing the fighters like MMA gyms do. It may be that they don’t want to compete in that venue, it may be that they are form fairies who couldn’t beat a five year old, it could be that they don’t want to.
I live in a rural area with not a lot of martial arts schools so I can tell statistically there are three Kung Fu schools, one which is good and two that are pretty bad. There are also three MMA gyms and two boxing gyms, all of which produce fighters who compete. From a statistical stand point it comes down to production and what is seen by the general public. If you have a school that is competing and winning in MMA, and regardless of you like it or not it seems to be the standard by which all is judged, it will be viewed as a good school.
Personally if there is hard sparring and good training methods involved a school does not necissarly have to produce a lot of competitive (those who are always competiing) fighters, but it certainly helps in the eyes of those watching.
I think the argument concerning Kung Fu as compared to MMA is the fact that Kung Fu schools are not producing the fighters like MMA gyms do.
I did , as well as hosted the world pancrase champion, not manyTCMA schools can say that, however it doesnt make me a better kung fu school then the school who doesnt compete does it?
perhaps to some close minded people it does, becuse if you dont compete your nothing, but this is comming form people who havent actuially competed! I ask people please show me your fighting record and I gt …we ll I havenet actually entered yet…, but just because your school not turning out fighters for competition areans only doesnt make ALL kung fu schools form teachers/collectors and silk PJ wearers who cant fight… this is my point dont ASSUME
I did , as well as hosted the world pancrase champion doesnt make me a better kung fu school then the school who doesnt compete does it? perhaps to some close minded peopel it does, but jsut becuse tour not turing out fighters for competition arenas only doesnt make ALL kung fu schools form teachers and slk PJ wearers… this is my point dont ASSUME
[/QUOTE]
If you read my whole post you would see I didn’t assume anything. I am giving you a reason based on statistics as to why Kung Fu schools are not looked as highly upon as MMA or other combat sport gyms. For Kung Fu there is not so much of a testing ground like there is for MMA. Even if you consider San Shou and Shuai Jiao, sure people with a base or knowledge of TCMA compete or know what they are but they don’t have the following MMA has. Human perception is something not easily changed once an opinion has been formed.
Have you ever been to a large tournament? I’ve been to many Taiji Legacy and AAU events, not to mention smaller local torunaments. There will be 1,000s of people competing in forms. As soon as San Da starts, it’s a ghost town.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047593]Have you ever been to a large tournament? I’ve been to many Taiji Legacy and AAU events, not to mention smaller local torunaments. There will be 1,000s of people competing in forms. As soon as San Da starts, it’s a ghost town.[/QUOTE]
Yep, the last time I competed in San Shou there were myself, one other Kung Fu guy, and two Muay Thai guys. We can even get our own **** people to compete in it!:rolleyes:
IE, Oh I read throughly and wasnt gearing it towards you at all, You for one I respect based on that type of thinking and not generalizing anything. its a shame that most people are what I coined as “SHEEPLE” yes I made that up many years ago, (please use it for your own entertainment) because its soooo true, they will do as thier lead or told reguardless of thier own personal thoughts. Like beleiving what the media says without digging deeper to the real truth or geting a second opinion or other perspective…
and you are correct once people form an opinion that are reluctant to change it even after they are proven worng, its an ego thing, sad but true.
MK so your basing your opinon on a cheesy kung fu tourney made for familes? thats like basing karate on the paul mitchell team… please open your perceptions wider
I did , as well as hosted the world pancrase champion, not manyTCMA schools can say that, however it doesnt make me a better kung fu school then the school who doesnt compete does it?
perhaps to some close minded people it does, becuse if you dont compete your nothing, but this is comming form people who havent actuially competed! I ask people please show me your fighting record and I gt …we ll I havenet actually entered yet…, but just because your school not turning out fighters for competition areans only doesnt make ALL kung fu schools form teachers/collectors and silk PJ wearers who cant fight… this is my point dont ASSUME
[/QUOTE]
A one time seminar does not make your school a fighting school.
Whats funny is having to use an outside seminar (most seminars are about learning new techs and have very little full on training/sparring) as proof of having a fighting school.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047601]MK so your basing your opinon on a cheesy kung fu tourney made for familes? thats like basing karate on the paul mitchell team… please open your perceptions wider[/QUOTE]
Those tournaments are where traditionalists come to showcase their skills against their own kind. Taiji Legacy has competitors from all over the world, including gasp China. What you see is, pretty much everyone is doing the same thing.
I know there are tough schools tucked away in an alley somewhere that don’t advertise, etc… But they are not the norm. That doesn’t change the fact that fighting is not emphasized in the majority of tradtional schools.
ive formed my own opinion based on everything ive seen and experienced. some good some bad. im a realist, i dont go to a total extreme in any direction. i understand there is good, bad and ugly in everything.
so i go through life basically sifting and finding the good, cutting away the bad, and seeing if the ugly is useful.
i always look at the whole picture as much as i can and try to keep things in a realistic perspective at all times.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;1047544]From the other thread:
The “assumptions” are based on the fact that 95% of all kung fu schools have nothing but forms and demos as any kind of evidence of what they do in training. Combine that with the fact that you’ve got a pretty big group of yahoos who claim they train without gear with “street without rules” techniques and take said techniques from the forms, and you’ve got a pretty good case for making this kind of assumption.[/QUOTE]
So if the Ballet school demos dancing rather than bar work, plies,stretching, etc then they are crap?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047606]Those tournaments are where traditionalists come to showcase their skills against their own kind. Taiji Legacy has competitors from all over the world, including gasp China. What you see is, pretty much everyone is doing the same thing.
I know there are tough schools tucked away in an alley somewhere that don’t advertise, etc… But they are not the norm. That doesn’t change the fact that fighting is not emphasized in the majority of tradtional schools.[/QUOTE]
back in the late 80’s early nineties when I was still living in winnipeg, we had th dragon’s cup tournament which was one of the early full contact kung fu venues available.
It was called san da and it was typical fo waht san shou/ san da is now.
The year I was in, I lost my fight. I sucked a lot of wind that day, but the overall winner was a buk hsing clf guy who was a puncher.
kung fu has been scrapping in tourneys and in their clubs and yeah, on the street too for a long time.
you guys can’t possibly point at modern performance wu shu and declare that is all martial arts and you can’t look at these american *****s with their nascar gis and shyte marketing props and other phoney baloney wanna be david carradines and believe that is all there is to kung fu. I think that while those guys are glaringly apparent, they do not represent chinese martial arts anyway. They really are crap and kung fu guys stay faaaaar away from them.
also i see a huge difference between learning how to do something, and practicing in a manner that you can apply what you learn in a realistic scenario.
example:
learning how to generate explosive power with all your elbows on a bag or what not, then the transition of how thats really going to play out when you are going against an actual person. you need to be pushed against all those variables to see how that power generation actually works in a combat situation.
thats a huge part of the disconnect ive seen in many trad schools.
