Everyone always says brazilian jiu jitsu, here are old chinese kung fu photos from early 1900’s
NOW… where have I seen these before…lol
didn’t we have this discussion about the same pics before? 
There is some debate as to where Shaui CHiao got those moves, with some argueing that they came from Judo, to which the early 1900’s chinese MA were exposed to by the japanese.
This Judo is where BJJ came from by the way, so the question isn’t “kung fo or BJJ” but more correctly:
Kung fu submissions and BJJ, same origins?
Egyptian BJJ out lineages them all!!! :eek:
Grappling, older than the hills on grannies chest and twice as dusty !!
Of course some of those pictures look more like the Kama sutra than MA, LOL !
Grappling, older than the hills on grannies chest and twice as dusty !!
aye… wrestling/grappling has been around as long as people have. I would consider it the oldest style.
This:
is from approx 1550 BCE
boxing… it’s old too. 
Many people seem to be under the impression that Greek Pankration influenced Kalarippayattu, though there are references to other arts prior to it, dating back to 2nd c. BCE.
Pankration, frankly, is not known today. The revival form of the art is known to be considerably different from the original art practiced throughout the Helenic States… Further, it is predated itself by boxing (pygmachia) and wrestling (pale), which, again, have roots as far back as Sumeria (2600 BCE).
roots are interwoven in human history.
Dragon
I must have missed the previous discussion on it.
no biggie, just stating I remember commenting on the photos and as Ronin stated there was discrepancies towards them and the originality of them is all i remember.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1045082]aye… wrestling/grappling has been around as long as people have. I would consider it the oldest style.[/QUOTE]
Which is why wrestling is the greatest of all martial arts.
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Kansuke;1045228]Which is why wrestling is the greatest of all martial arts.[/QUOTE]
no boxing is.
i win.
photos
I don’t recall the previous discussion …what’s the source of the photos and what kf style are they associated with?
btw
My first kf instructor had the glyphs on the wall of the school…presented as proof of the kemetic origins of fighting arts …
[QUOTE=18elders;1045050]Everyone always says brazilian jiu jitsu, here are old chinese kung fu photos from early 1900’s[/QUOTE]
The difference between those and BJJ is that BJJ actually uses those techs against resisting opponents. Those pics clearly show people who were not using them and testing them because they do not work the way they are shown in that diagram.
true
Bjj manuals show techniques using compliant partners. Doesn’t mean they don’t work the techniques live.
[QUOTE=KwaiChangCaine;1045300]Bjj manuals show techniques using compliant partners. Doesn’t mean they don’t work the techniques live.[/QUOTE]
No, but when they show the techs, they actually show them the way they have to be applied to actually work. The pics in the original docs weren’t showing the techs in a way they would actually work. When you actually use the techs, you demonstrate them the way you have learned that they work against a resisting opponent. You still apply the technique in a valid manner, even when the opponent is complying. The original demos wouldn’t work the way they are being shown.
The Chinese NEVER developed a comprehensive curriculum on the ground. period. Just because they shared a few common holds, submissions and what not means nothing.
The Chinese NEVER developed a comprehensive curriculum on the ground. period. Just because they shared a few common holds, submissions and what not means nothing.
been preaching that around here for awhile… trying telling it to some of the other loonies around here.