What I'm liking about BJJ

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Mixed Martial Arts
61

I honestly think Kung Lek is actually mad about not being able to move this BJJ thread to the ORA forum… this forum was designed to sell stuff, mainly fake wushu weapons, it has very little to do with “Kung Fu.”

I wonder why the Kung Lek forum is so drab?

This is a hissy fit that deserves to be re-posted, again:

[i]I suggest you all wander over to mma.tv where you can circle jerk together and share in the bukkake.

what a friggin dumb argument.

wrestling = useless for striking
MT= useless for wrestling
boxing= useless for graplling +kick skills

ergo, they are in and of themselves lacking and yet everyone is sniffing armpits about it and doing it in a kungfu forum which is formatted for kf players from traditional schools, to wushu performance types etc etc.

I’m surprised some of you just can’t resist coming and posting your troll stuff in this forum when there is one made available for you.

your arguments for mma are pretty ridiculous in this environment when it comes down to it.

kind of tiring to, so anyway, please feel free to continue to jag off all over the dead horse you brought in with you, I don’t have time for this argument anymore other than to say, it is a stupid one and irrelevant here.[/i]

Im pretty sure the dead horse on this thread came in with KL. Its the whole …CMA has it all and I have learned it to such an extent that I am perfectly happy with my groundfighting ignorance, and thats what counts, being happy with lacklusterness and making sure others know it!

MT is not useless for wrestling, BTW.

:wink:

62

Oh wow, CMA versus MMA, I so guessed this had deteriorated into something like that by now.

Both CMA and MMA people like to keep things in house, it really grates on them to admit anything outside their own ‘faction’ is worth having. Some oppinions to fuel the fire:

  1. The best martial artists crosstrain. The only reason i can think of for not crosstraining are if time restrictions prevent it. Crosstrain within your style, and in other styles. Specialisation and crosstraining are not mutually exclusive, its a yin yang thing.

  2. Do not be restricted in your training by bull****. If you want groundfighting, go and get it, you know where it is. If you want to do something else instead, dont listen to the cries of the BJJ zombies, plenty of people have been and will be successful in the ‘street’ without it, if you dont deem it nessicary then have the balls to be different.

  3. Having said that, your crosstraining should be dictated by what intimidates you. If grappling makes you feel uneasy, do it. If you get squeamish at sparring, box. Always seek what is new and different, always seek to grow.

63

che guevera on a cracker.

knife? what’s pro? 50 bucks for beating on bubba in the local nhb hub bub on friday night?

fd- my argument is towards the end that knifes arguments about mma being the one and only is just churlish masturbation and he’s a troll. I could really care less if someone paid him 50 bucks once to fight a few rounds with some other nobody that never went anywhere as he retires into amateur status with 40 million other “amateurs” :rolleyes:

Knife makes a comment about my advice on the ground. what advice? I made a couple of pretty loose references to being able to defend oneself, I wasn’t dispensing with the advice. I think that’s where knife and the others wanted to wade into teh minutia and start going on about how this or that will make you tap and so on.

but mainly, im here to talk kungfu not to listen to the likes of knife or mma groupies go on and on about how kungfu sucks.

quite trying to change the subject. If you wanna talk mma and how great it is and get all warm and fuzzy about the finer points of it, you’re in the wrong place.

pro? laugh, I guess I’m a pro too then because I won 200 bucks for a fight back in the late eighties? gimme a f-ing break.

anyway, mma.tv is thataway guys. you’ll get more milage about of kungfu bashing there than here.

64

you’re in the wrong place.

Lol, because the canadians are here to run us out.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

65

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;713750]che guevera on a cracker.

knife? what’s pro? 50 bucks for beating on bubba in the local nhb hub bub on friday night?

fd- my argument is towards the end that knifes arguments about mma being the one and only is just churlish masturbation and he’s a troll. I could really care less if someone paid him 50 bucks once to fight a few rounds with some other nobody that never went anywhere as he retires into amateur status with 40 million other “amateurs” :rolleyes: [/quote]

If you didn’t care whether or not he was pro fighter, why did you ask if he was a pro-fighter?

Seems to me you were expecting and answer in the negative, and now that you’ve got the opposite you’re making a big deal about how you don’t care. If you really don’t care, why did you ask?

Knife makes a comment about my advice on the ground. what advice? I made a couple of pretty loose references to being able to defend oneself, I wasn’t dispensing with the advice. I think that’s where knife and the others wanted to wade into teh minutia and start going on about how this or that will make you tap and so on.

You said that your CMA teaches how to protect yourself on the ground, and then you made several statements about doing things that are, typically, a bad idea when you’re on the ground.

but mainly, im here to talk kungfu not to listen to the likes of knife or mma groupies go on and on about how kungfu sucks.

I don’t think anyone has said that kung fu sucks in this thread. What we have said is “Kung Fu sucks at groundfighting” and “people who state otherwise suck at groundfighting”. If you’d like to argue those points, feel free.

66

[QUOTE=FatherDog;713796]If you didn’t care whether or not he was pro fighter, why did you ask if he was a pro-fighter? what’s this? the chewbacca defense? gimme a break fd

Seems to me you were expecting and answer in the negative, and now that you’ve got the opposite you’re making a big deal about how you don’t care. If you really don’t care, why did you ask? more distractions from the points i made than pepperoni on a chicago deep dish :rolleyes:

You said that your CMA teaches how to protect yourself on the ground, and then you made several statements about doing things that are, typically, a bad idea when you’re on the ground. can you show me where i said that? What I said was that cma should teach you how to defend from any attack in a logical and fundamental way, not how to pwn in a given range (except striking, stand up locks etc), but to protect yourself from someone attacking you whether you’re standing , sitting or they are sitting on top of you

I don’t think anyone has said that kung fu sucks in this thread. What we have said is “Kung Fu sucks at groundfighting” and “people who state otherwise suck at groundfighting”. If you’d like to argue those points, feel free. ok, you’re wrong and you’re coming at it from your own point of understanding. I don’t think I’ve ever said the focus of cma was groundfighting, it’s not. But you’re a bit whacked in this statement because what is being posted by knife and his ilk is that cma sucks period. to which my response is, you are talking out your ass and clearly don’t know what it is you are talking about. On the other hand, I’ve wrestled, i’ve boxed, I do kungfu. And from that perspective, i can see that the nutrider attitude of Knifes and others is incorrect amnd perhaops they should just stick to talking about what they do instead of pretending to have insight into things they obviously don’t do. [/QUOTE]

the obligatory 10 character sentence because i answered inside the quotes

67

Wow David, why do you have your undies in a knot over this one?

68

not particularly, just tired of reading it all the time, so thought I would add my 2 cents, then my 4 cents and so on from the pespective of my own which actualy employs the thinking and training of both moden and oldschool martial arts.

in my experience, a lot of mma mouth boxers on forums don’t have the time in with kungfu to make any of the comments they make and they tend to make these huge irrational and false blanket statements because they read or heard something from somebody or don’t like some fruitcakes website going on about how to levitate or what have you.

stop painting us all with the same uninformed brush is what Im saying and stop thinking that all martial arts are only measured as useful in a ufc venue because that’s a load of crap.

ill keep reiterating it so long as this goes on I guess, afterall this is Kungfu magazine forum, not bash cma forum and not ufc forum. It’s like trying to validate good cookie recipes at how to drive a dumptruck forum. while you can ship cookies in dumptrucks, they are not the same thing. :stuck_out_tongue:

69

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;713798]
what’s this? the chewbacca defense? gimme a break fd
[/QUOTE]

It’s a simple question. Why did you ask if he was a pro-fighter if, as soon as you found out he was, you were just going to spend two paragraphs saying how much you don’t care that he’s a pro fighter? If you didn’t care, why did you ask?

more distractions from the points i made than pepperoni on a chicago deep dish

What points did you make that you feel weren’t addressed?

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=712684&postcount=17

[quote=“David Jamieson”]

ok, you’re wrong and you’re coming at it from your own point of understanding.[/quote]

Please explain what part of my statement was wrong.

I don’t think I’ve ever said the focus of cma was groundfighting, it’s not.

I didn’t say you had.

But you’re a bit whacked in this statement because what is being posted by knife and his ilk is that cma sucks period.

Please quote a post in this thread where anyone says that. Just one. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

70

FD-

I guess your reading comprehension ain’t up to snuff when it comes to reading knifes posts.

also, care to put into quotes exactly where i said cma trains groundwork as you claim ive said?

thanks

71

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;713816]FD-

I guess your reading comprehension ain’t up to snuff when it comes to reading knifes posts.[/quote]

So quote the posts you’re talking about. go ahead; they shouldn’t be hard to find. Quote a post in this thread where KF says or implies that CMA sucks. Quote a post in this thread where ANYONE says or implies that CMA sucks.

also, care to put into quotes exactly where i said cma trains groundwork as you claim ive said?

thanks

[quote=“David Jamieson”]

really? what style was that? you don’t cover up? feed the stitch side of the forearm? attempt to control the wrists? play the angle of attack to cut it off and reverse? make your own attack?

10-12 years of cma and you never learned to defend yourself from most positions? there is something wrong in what you were taught. that isn’t correct at all.[/quote]

72

lol. This ranks right up there with Sifu Abel vs. Shaolin Tiger and Dave Ross vs. Anybody.

73

You know one thing that I’ve learned about this board is that many people here talk really REALLY big…Of course! It’s a BB and people can do that without backing it up!:smiley:

Wouldn’t it be fun to see these people come together for an actual competition against one another?:eek:

74

[QUOTE=BoulderDawg;713829]You know one thing that I’ve learned about this board is that many people here talk really REALLY big…Of course! It’s a BB and people can do that without backing it up!:smiley:

Wouldn’t it be fun to see these people come together for an actual competition against one another?:eek:[/QUOTE]

I’ve kicked water dragon’s ass before.

75

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;713809]not particularly, just tired of reading it all the time, so thought I would add my 2 cents, then my 4 cents and so on from the pespective of my own which actualy employs the thinking and training of both moden and oldschool martial arts.

in my experience, a lot of mma mouth boxers on forums don’t have the time in with kungfu to make any of the comments they make and they tend to make these huge irrational and false blanket statements because they read or heard something from somebody or don’t like some fruitcakes website going on about how to levitate or what have you.

stop painting us all with the same uninformed brush is what Im saying and stop thinking that all martial arts are only measured as useful in a ufc venue because that’s a load of crap.

ill keep reiterating it so long as this goes on I guess, afterall this is Kungfu magazine forum, not bash cma forum and not ufc forum. It’s like trying to validate good cookie recipes at how to drive a dumptruck forum. while you can ship cookies in dumptrucks, they are not the same thing. :p[/QUOTE]

But since this is a cma forum, it’s fine when cma guys pick up the uninformed brush and start playing picasso?

76

[QUOTE=BoulderDawg;713829]You know one thing that I’ve learned about this board is that many people here talk really REALLY big…Of course! It’s a BB and people can do that without backing it up!:smiley:

Wouldn’t it be fun to see these people come together for an actual competition against one another?:eek:[/QUOTE]

I’ve said, several times, that anytime someone wants to see how good (or how bad) I am at fighting, they’re free to come see. I’ve posted my name, the gym I train at, and the hours I’m there before - I’ll do it again here.

David Moraski
Team Endgame Combat Sports Academy
http://www.teamendgame.com
1 Dell Glen Ave, Lodi, NJ

I’m there on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, from seven or eight till eleven.

I will always, barring injury, roll or spar with anyone who wants to roll or spar, be they rank beginner, old master, black belt, white belt, chartreuse belt, kung fu, kung pow, karate, kickboxing, box-kicking, whatever. I don’t care if they’re someone who just stopped by to check out the school, or some dude from a message board that wants to come see what’s what - I’ll spar with anyone. I like to spar.

77

like i said fd, reading comprehension. Are you reading the same thing? there’s nothing there that talks about what you’re claiming I said. anyway, i know what time it is with you and you just go ahead and keep that to yourself.

here’s the points i made one more time:

wrestling = useless for standup
MT=useless for groundwork
boxing= useless for takedowns, groundwork and kicks.

kungfu needs to spend more time with the ground, the rest is already there.

so, mma-ists, I can aprreciate your thing, but to think that there is not valid attack defense and confrontational response in kungfu is stupid. period.

and yes a kungfu person should be able to protect themselves from any position.
and yes, everybody can lose or win a fight. hurrah. hurrah.

now, exactly whay are you non kungfu guys in a kungfu forum again? and further more why are you bagging on cma in a cma forum if you’re not just being trolls?

If you don’t know anything about kungfu, because you don’t train in a style of chinese martial arts, why are you compelled to comment on its weakness when you haven’t got one iota of an idea of what it’s strengths are?

ill understand if you don’t understand why that is so ridiculous of a position for you to take from the perspective of a kungfu practitioner on a kungfu forum. :rolleyes:

78

[QUOTE=FatherDog;713796]I don’t think anyone has said that kung fu sucks in this thread. [/QUOTE]
While I didn’t say it in this thread, I am guilty as charged in other threads.

However, I only think that about 95% of KF sucks. That is the 95% that spend their time doing forms, training with compliant partners, pretending to hit vital targets, never competing in full contact venues, and thinking that their lethal techniques such as iron claws, eye pokes, neck breaks, finger bending, throat crushing and fat grabs are somehow better than MMA training.

Those are pretty much the same guys who think the rules of the UFC are somehow purposly biased against KF techniques.

The 5% that don’t suck are the guys who spend their time training pretty much the same way the MMA guys are training.

79

[QUOTE=Knifefighter;713886]While I didn’t say it in this thread, I am guilty as charged in other threads.

However, I only think that about 95% of KF sucks. That is the 95% that spend their time doing forms, training with compliant partners, pretending to hit vital targets, never competing in full contact venues, and thinking that their lethal techniques such as iron claws, eye pokes, neck breaks, finger bending, throat crushing and fat grabs are somehow better than MMA training.

Those are pretty much the same guys who think the rules of the UFC are somehow purposly biased against KF techniques.

The 5% that don’t suck are the guys who spend their time training pretty much the same way the MMA guys are training.[/QUOTE]

How do you judge an art based on the worst participants/representations of it? KF doesn’t suck, the people that practice it may suck. I think it’s important that we get that straight. And guess what, the same thing can happen to someone that is training in MMA, or any other MA/fighting art. Last night there was a bio on Ali, one that I never saw before. When he refused to be drafted and was stripped of his title, he had three years off. When he finally came back, he himself noticed, as well as Dundee, that Ali wasn’t the same fighter. So even the greatest of the greats, can suck (at their own level that is) with little or improper practice sessions.

As a side note, I do believe that in the Martial Arts, there are more effective methods/concepts/techniques that can be used to amplify someones overall effectiveness as a fighter. Some methods are simply just better to use than others. The Gracie’s proved this with their method of JJ, when the UFC first came out.

Just my loonies worth…:wink:

James

80

KF doesn’t suck, the people that practice it may suck. I think it’s important that we get that straight.

Now there’s a ringing endorsement for Kung Fu’s training methods. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that no matter how good an art or method is that if it’s full of people that suck that the art has degraded to the level of the practitioners?