How have you or your school addressed the current BJJ / MMA movement that’s prevalent in today’s martial arts?
My School
As I’ve stated elsewhere, one of the teachers in my family has been studying No Gi JJ and BJJ for some 15 years–he offers regular ground training at his school, and offers seminars at our school whenever he’s in the area.
Also (perhaps because his first MA was Judo, perhaps just 'cause he really knows his stuff), my teacher is able to show how to adapt various techniques for the ground. Also we frequently train from the clinch, and have no issues with adopting methods from other styles under appropriate circumstances (the boxer’s close guard, for example).
Myself
I’ve done some of the ground seminars mentioned above. Also looking into doing a little cross-training at the local MMA club…am currently waiting for a response from them to see if I can wear sneakers when I train (have plantar fasciitis, need my arch support :o )–so whether I’m able to do more for myself at the moment depends on their answer.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1142643]How have you or your school addressed the current BJJ / MMA movement that’s prevalent in today’s martial arts?[/QUOTE]
I found an awesome Wing Chun grappling class and took it online!! True story.
Myself and the other instructor who teaches with me did what everyone else did, went out and cross trained in grappling systems and filled in the gaps. I believe Shuai Jiao and wrestling to be an integral part of any Kung Fu, and most systems should have these.
The best advice, use your throws, takedowns, and sweeps and either cross train or roll with wrestlers, judokas, BJJers, and fill in the gaps and improve your game. Learning positioning, bridging, shrimping, and submissions and counters is also important, if for no other reason than to be able to stand back up.
Last night at our class this is what we worked on, positioning, bridging, shrimping, and standing back up. If anything with the current focus on grappling in the marital arts practioners should look to be able to counter these movements, which only comes from learning them yourself.
I have this simple suggestion:
Go to your local judo or BJJ gym ( or MMA if you have one) and speak with the head instructor and tell him you would like for someone to come to your school on a reg basis to introduce your students to ground work.
They will be very accomodating.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1142650]I have this simple suggestion:
Go to your local judo or BJJ gym ( or MMA if you have one) and speak with the head instructor and tell him you would like for someone to come to your school on a reg basis to introduce your students to ground work.
They will be very accomodating.[/QUOTE]
Also, most BJJ instructors would be happy to come to your gym/kwoon and give a seminar on basic ground work, usually at a nominal fee. This at least gets them started in the basics that you can work on with them as well as have the BJJ instrutor continue this somewhat regulary for advancement.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1142652]Also, most BJJ instructors would be happy to come to your gym/kwoon and give a seminar on basic ground work, usually at a nominal fee. This at least gets them started in the basics that you can work on with them as well as have the BJJ instrutor continue this somewhat regulary for advancement.[/QUOTE]
This is how I plan to further my own experience, given my limited time. One of my students studied for a couple years with a local bjj black belt who I’ve heard is a really good guy, so the plan is to periodically do this.
[QUOTE=Taixuquan99;1142689]This is how I plan to further my own experience, given my limited time. One of my students studied for a couple years with a local bjj black belt who I’ve heard is a really good guy, so the plan is to periodically do this.[/QUOTE]
Outside of the web, you will find that BJJ players ( and BB in particular) are very easy going and respectful and they just love to get exposed to other MA.
Even if it’s only once a week, it will be an amazing experience.
The first time I rolled with a BB it felt like grappling with an empty jacket and then an anaconda ! LOL !
You truly have no idea the skill level of a trained grappler until you roll with one.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1142691]Outside of the web, you will find that BJJ players ( and BB in particular) are very easy going and respectful and they just love to get exposed to other MA.[/quote]
I laughed heartily at the outside of the web comment. I have not actually met a judo or bjj player of any experience that I didn’t like, outside of the web. I’ve met nice wrestlers and jerks, but I’ve also met more wrestlers than bjj guys. I’ve always known some judo guys, never had any problem with them.
Even if it’s only once a week, it will be an amazing experience.
I’ve rolled some with a few mid level guys, one of them is a very competitive dude in amazing shape. I can hold him off for a while on the ground, sometimes I can shake him and get up, but that’s about it. But I do make him work. Having done that with him, I can respect that rolling with a high level guy must be harrying, in a good way.
The first time I rolled with a BB it felt like grappling with an empty jacket and then an anaconda !
TMI!
You truly have no idea the skill level of a trained grappler until you roll with one.
I like anyone who really likes working their martial arts more working than their attitude. They are most of the skilled ones. They might smack talk in competition, but they seem to have the attitude that “I have to do this crap for competition, I’m not gonna waste training time hoping you’ll give me less challenge because I messed with your head.”
In my school we have always crossed trained, YOU MUST, but we have been doing it way before BJJ was a fad or even heard of outside Brazil,
We go back to UFC 6 and 7 and my kung fu student won on the ground.
I teachg my studetns reality, and said when you fight expect to fall, then lets learn how to fight form this position, not IF it happnes but WHEN. Unless you KO your going tot he ground gravity has no bias.
If your school is geared towards forms, tourneys point fighting and conditioning and not fighting then this section can be skipped
For those who think they should not train in all aspects of fighting are just ignorant. conditioning, wind, strength, internal, external, mental, phsyical, spititual, kinitics, jing, qigong, nei gong, anatomy, the list goes on and on
I like my kung fu, but I also enjoy Judo and working out with BJJ players and MMA guys.
In the heat of whatever I’m doing - I enjoy it. So ground, throwing, striking… really it’s all the same. You just keep working on it and hopefully keep enjoying it. Sometimes you have “aha” moments like I had the other night with Hane Goshi. My only limitation is my wallet… and a finite amount of free time to work out.
Greetings,
This is, by far, the healthiest thread I have seen on the subject matter. Way to go!!
mickey
I’m going to crawl under the table and curl up in the fetal position.
[QUOTE=ShaolinDan;1142646]…am currently waiting for a response from them to see if I can wear sneakers when I train (have plantar fasciitis, need my arch support :o )–so whether I’m able to do more for myself at the moment depends on their answer.[/QUOTE]
Well, I’ll have to get a pair of wrestling shoes, but it sounds like I can do it. Guess I’ll get a firsthand look at the view from the other side. 
I have otomix wrestling shoes, check them out real light weight. Oddly enough I use them when I do bag work, they have never seen the mats
When I first started looking for martial art schools, my only thought was to become like that TV character from the show “Kung Fu” with David Carridine. I had no idea about grappling in MA other than the wrestling I had been doing.
I did Tae Kwon Do, Karate and Kun Tao. The Kun Tao was the closest thing to grappling, but it just was not my bag. The others were only stand up styles. When I met my current teacher the first thing I noticed is that we were doing SC right off the bat.
Northern Shaolin and Hung Gar both have some ground work but they definately are different looking the BJJ and MMA ground fighting. They are also not quite as extensive as them also. Besides the ground work they have a grappling style called Chin Na (Kum Na in Cantonese). Northern Shaolin has an extensive Chin Na program which combined with it’s ground work can be enough for the average person looking for self defense.
With the skills I have accumulated over the years I have no reason to go out and pick up any BJJ or MMA ground work. What I do now:
I start kids off by teaching them High school wrestling and Shuai Chiao. As their skill level picks up and their level of control gets good, then I start them on sparring and San Shou (all during this they are learning basic kung fu skills like punching and kicking and stance work etc etc.).
Teens and Young adults learn Kung Fu basics and Shaui Chiao. They have the option to go and do High School wrestling. As their skill increases they start Sparring and San Shou.
Usually all the adults stick to kung fu basics and self defense. Not every adult likes to roll around. Females and older folk are not likely to join my Shuai Chiao, San Shou or Wrestling classes.
ginosifu
Does it really have to be an either/or proposition? Neither side does the same job in the same way. I wouldn’t go to a bjj school for their striking tips. And vice verse.
My kung fu covers my strikes, kicks, locks, throws, mobility and range. That’s what most kung fu wants to do, to hold the line and get the dominant position. But if my line is breached and I find myself on the other end, I’ll try to get out as well I can, and it won’t be a CMA inspired technique necessarily. There could be nuances in my choices of movement due to CMA. Perhaps paradigms not explored or accepted by the status quo. But my grappling will never be “pure” . I can’t help but hit. Its in my DNA. For me, there are too many chances for a strike for me to ignore.
[QUOTE=Lebaufist;1142899]Does it really have to be an either/or proposition? Neither side does the same job in the same way. I wouldn’t go to a bjj school for their striking tips. And vice verse.
My kung fu covers my strikes, kicks, locks, throws, mobility and range. That’s what most kung fu wants to do, to hold the line and get the dominant position. But if my line is breached and I find myself on the other end, I’ll try to get out as well I can, and it won’t be a CMA inspired technique necessarily. There could be nuances in my choices of movement due to CMA. Perhaps paradigms not explored or accepted by the status quo. But my grappling will never be “pure” . I can’t help but hit. Its in my DNA. For me, there are too many chances for a strike for me to ignore.[/QUOTE] Have to agree. If you’re not a grappler/wrestler you are not going to be prone to accommodating your enemy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEvFXVWT4NY&feature=related
I started out doing Nogi BJJ, but I’ve been doing CSW for a while now. Went to the camp in OC this year, train with Erik when he’s over here etc.
One thing I’ve found though is that if you have a decent knowledge of grappling, you can see it in the TCMA. People talk a lot about Ditang, but on both sides of the fence they’re often misguided. If you view it through an understanding of open guard work though it all makes a lot of sense. CLF has 3 stances “pressing down horse” " kneeling down horse" and “leg scissors” which are kind of odd as standup stances, but do in fact cover all the common top positions on the ground!
Greetings,
The warrior approach to any newly established method is to fully assess it. And that may include studying it. That way you learn its strengths and weaknesses. This is how the warrior maintains his edge. This is how the teacher maintains the fighting viability of the style he teaches; and it is his RESPONSIBILITY to do so. It is pretty pathetic to say you have all you need if you do not know how to pull it together to keep from getting choked out. The Chinese martial arts were/are like that. In China they are studying Tae Kwon Do, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu and they are not breaking with TRADITION by doing so.
I remember going to a martial arts supply store in NYC on the Deuce and the guy in the store was really excited by the new interest in grappling. I learned a lot just from that encounter about excelling in one’s craft.
mickey