What arts would you incorporate and why?
EO
hung gar gar for its deadly powerful strikes and wing chun for its stick hands to neutralize groundfighting
Sanda is pretty much a compilation of Kung Fu styles integrated with western boxing, Shuai Jiao and wrestling throws. Add submission and groundwork and it is already there.
I don’t see why people get so wrapped up in something having to be Chinese by definition. Hell, most of the chinese don’t care and train other systems for submisson and groundwork, at least the ones competing in MMA do.
its due to ego being crushed. the mma fighter symbolizes the high school bully. kung fu is the white feminine nerds way to escape his lifes troubles and create an alternate reality. MMA confronts this fantasy and causes mental distress.
when UFC came out, the walls of reality came crashing down on many kung fu people, who rely on kung fu to give them meaning in life and fill a cultural void.
You can’t because TCMA has no groundfighting.
MMA = multiple ranges, and without a competent ground game, you do not have “MMA.”
MMA -
Modern Pentathalon
Have to agree with MK. you can take a lot of the differing styles and put them together or what not, but it does not have a complete ground/clinch oriented plan.
You can say well it has chin na… chin na is not a ground oriented system or a system in itself.
it doesnt matter if kung fu has ground fighting or not, if u cant even sprawl dont worry about groundfighting yet.
the problem is kung fu has changed focus, from brutality to technicality, from contest of manliness and toughness to contest of effectiveness. chinese boxing never claimed to be the ultimate fighting style. like most traditional folk boxing and wrestling in the world its ritual combat, because its meaningless to obsess about effectiveness of unarmed fighting. effective unarmed fighting is a oxymoron.
nope. There are schools of SC that do have groundfighting.
TCMA was not created in a bubble. How can arts develop into such sophisticated systems and not have grappling?
Just as Judo has ne-waza.
Just because you haven’t been exposed to it, does not mean it doesn’t exist.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1053555]nope. There are schools of SC that do have groundfighting.
[/QUOTE]
it came from judo. shuai jiao has same rules as buku, touch ground and lose.
beijing shuai jiao IS buku. the only effective chinese martial art is non chinese. lol
chinese are proud of sanda when all the sanda kings are mongolian lol
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1053561][/QUOTE]
Stop trying to derail my thread !
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1053555]nope. There are schools of SC that do have groundfighting. [/quote] Show me 3 pieces of evidence, kind sir.
TCMA was not created in a bubble. How can arts develop into such sophisticated systems and not have grappling?.
Where does the groundfighting in your school come from?
[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1053562]Stop trying to derail my thread ![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1053555]nope. There are schools of SC that do have groundfighting.
TCMA was not created in a bubble. How can arts develop into such sophisticated systems and not have grappling?
Just as Judo has ne-waza.
Just because you haven’t been exposed to it, does not mean it doesn’t exist.[/QUOTE]
Again I ask what makes the difference if something is considered exclusively Chinese or not. Maybe there are SC schools with submissions and groundfighting, maybe they cross trained in BJJ or Judo or whatever other submission based style and picked them up.
The thing is MMA as a sport was developed to take the best from systems and make someone a complete fighter in all three aspects of fighting, stand up, clinch, and groundwork. I don’t get why Kung Fu folks make such a big deal out of something being excluseively Chinese or not. If it makes your fighting system (Kung Fu) better, you should use it no matter where it came from or who developed it.
@ MK-my stuff all comes out of the Eight Drunken Immortals forms as taught to me by..
Nah, I was just joking. I draw from as many sources as possible, and certainly not limited to Chinese styles. (tools is tools) I’m not saying that BJJ hasn’t taken the ball and run with it and developed, refined and advanced it. Always Give credit where credit is due.
I was simply saying that SC does indeed have ground fighting.
I have met other SC people who say yes, others who say no-some even from the same line, so go figure. I know one of my teachers and friend, Chao-Sifu practiced Monguo Seut-Gohk in his youth in Guangzhao, (among other systems)and when queried about the ground fighting, he said,“Sure!” Took his friend down and armbarred him. Chao-Sifu just celebrated his 75th Birthday.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1053555]nope. There are schools of SC that do have groundfighting.
TCMA was not created in a bubble. How can arts develop into such sophisticated systems and not have grappling?
Just as Judo has ne-waza.
Just because you haven’t been exposed to it, does not mean it doesn’t exist.[/QUOTE]
:eek:
You are beginning to sound like me, and I like it.
It seems that you have finally realized how kung fu-clueless most of the (MMA) posters in this forum really are…
Yes, the TCMAs do address the ground scenario, wether they do so by rolling around in the ground for an hour and half, is another story.
People have to remember, and I have stated this before, that wrestling arts developed in China even before the kung fu styles. It is ignorant to assume that the thousands of kung fu styles that evolved during hundreds of years, somehow “forgot” to address the ground scenario, just because someone living in some Shmucksville, has not seen it.
Like Ten Tigers said, and I have stated it before, just because you have not been exposed to it, it does not mean that it does not exist. So, it is time for some of the none-TCMA posters, and their pseudo kung fu colleagues, to get off their high (and uniformed) horses, and do some serious research into the TCMAs, by ASKING questions and not making ignorant statements.
Please remeber that this is a TCMA forum, and this is where people like you are supposed to come and learn about the various methodologies and aspects. This forum is NOT for you to come and “teach” us modern MMA. Thank you!
Here we go again:eek:
[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1053519]What arts would you incorporate and why?
EO[/QUOTE]
Sorry for my previous rant, but I will attempt to contribute to the topic at hand.
Most kung fu styles will represent MMA, in a shall we say, “microcosm”. So, in most styles you will see that all ranges of combat will be addressed. However, individual styles will emphasis different ranges and aspects.
For example, Wing Chun will emphasis the short range, but not exclusively. Correctly trained WC will cover all ranges. This is also refelected in Wing Chun’s weapons. The butterfly knives for short range; the pole, long range, and in some lineages, the darts, which I guess would represent the very long range.
So, once we acknowledge that proper kung fu training is very hard to come by, then we realize that many people search the MMA or cross training solutions, because the kung fu they had been exposed to, was lacking in fundamental aspects.
Having said that, one must admit that if one completes a given style of kung fu, then he can certainly improve on it by training other relevant styles of TCMAs. So, if your core style emphasises the short range, then you might want to train another kung fu style that focuses more on the long range. Also, if your core style emphasises the external approach, you might want to train another style that emphasises the Internals, and so on.
If you are talking sports fighting, then one can study any major kung fu style, under GENUINE instruction, but with a sports emphasis - conditioning, etc.- and perhaps add some Shui Chao, if necessary.