With great personal sacrifice they come to this forum with a message to deliver–kung fu sucks and we have come to awaken you from your delusional fog.
Thank god for those brave souls who take the time to tell us how lame we are and how great they truly are because they practice <insert martial flavor of the week>.
What would we do without them?
EO
If you just go to a Judo forum and suggest those Judoka to compete in kick boxing tournament, you will get pretty much the same responses as we have here.
[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1139456]
What we do without them?
EO[/QUOTE]
Laugh a lot less than we normally do! 
Funny, I don’t recall kung fu being bashed but I do see kung fu fantasy crap being bashed.
You shouldn’t confuse the two.
phuck it - I’m going all in, Death Touch and all b!tches!!! Where’s my monk’s robe???
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1139465]Funny, I don’t recall kung fu being bashed but I do see kung fu fantasy crap being bashed.
You shouldn’t confuse the two.[/QUOTE]
Personally speaking, I have never talked about “kung fu fantasy”, unless people think that TCMA don’t address the ground scenario; or that the Internals are about chi blasts; Iron Palm/body is fantasy; that there are valid methodologies that people have never heard of, and so on, but I have seen what I have said here bashed plenty of times.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1139465]Funny, I don’t recall kung fu being bashed but I do see kung fu fantasy crap being bashed.
You shouldn’t confuse the two.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you can not tell which one is the real one !.
Maybe you have them reversed.
[QUOTE=Eric Olson;1139456]With great personal sacrifice they come to this forum with a message to deliver–kung fu sucks and we have come to awaken you from your delusional fog.
Thank god for those brave souls who take the time to tell us how lame we are and how great they truly are because they practice <insert martial flavor of the week>.
What would we do without them?
EO[/QUOTE]
Is this the same guy that wrought a book ?. “Cultivating the Chi”
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1139473]Personally speaking, I have never talked about “kung fu fantasy”, unless people think that TCMA don’t address the ground scenario; or that the Internals are about chi blasts; Iron Palm/body is fantasy; that there are valid methodologies that people have never heard of, and so on, but I have seen what I have said here bashed plenty of times.[/QUOTE]
TCMA doesn’t address ground fighting.
Actual grappling? Wrestling? No. I haven’t seen it. The closest it comes is with the Throw Horn or the Free Style and neither of those deal with protracted ground scenarios. Certainly none of the big styles deal with it in any way that can be considered an adequate address of the range.
I’d like to know what style has guys actually rolling, learning positioning, learning how to take or give while tangled up on the ground. I have yet to see that style and I’ve been into Kung Fu for a long time now.
TCMA has a lot to offer, but ground fighting is not one of those things. That’s fine, cross training makes us all better than the training you get in a bubble. Even old guys know this, that’s why most of the good sifu out there had several sifu themselves.
Nowadays, it is a sea of choices and some of them are going to be bad wherever you go, but we shouldn’t even try and sell a lie. Be honest and be truthful and be aware that TCMA simply doesn’t address many tactical situations. It also addresses a lot of artism which is not practical or functional.
No big deal. It’s better to be honest with your art and not betray it with lies you make up because your ego is too big to admit you don’t have an answer to a question. That is even worse and in fact that is what I despise most about TCMA.
I refuse to celebrate lies. That’s dishonest and frankly, it’s stupid and kills the arts.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1139479]TCMA doesn’t address ground fighting.
Actual grappling? Wrestling? No. I haven’t seen it. The closest it comes is with the Throw Horn or the Free Style and neither of those deal with protracted ground scenarios. Certainly none of the big styles deal with it in any way that can be considered an adequate address of the range.
I’d like to know what style has guys actually rolling, learning positioning, learning how to take or give while tangled up on the ground. I have yet to see that style and I’ve been into Kung Fu for a long time now.
TCMA has a lot to offer, but ground fighting is not one of those things. That’s fine, cross training makes us all better than the training you get in a bubble. Even old guys know this, that’s why most of the good sifu out there had several sifu themselves.
Nowadays, it is a sea of choices and some of them are going to be bad wherever you go, but we shouldn’t even try and sell a lie. Be honest and be truthful and be aware that TCMA simply doesn’t address many tactical situations. It also addresses a lot of artism which is not practical or functional.
No big deal. It’s better to be honest with your art and not betray it with lies you make up because your ego is too big to admit you don’t have an answer to a question. That is even worse and in fact that is what I despise most about TCMA.
I refuse to celebrate lies. That’s dishonest and frankly, it’s stupid and kills the arts.[/QUOTE]
All styles and movements are secondary, and just expressions of the personality of their creator. What is missing in almost all TCMA is what comes before the movement.
This is what allows the movement to work.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1139479]TCMA doesn’t address ground fighting.
Actual grappling? Wrestling? No. I haven’t seen it. The closest it comes is with the Throw Horn or the Free Style and neither of those deal with protracted ground scenarios. Certainly none of the big styles deal with it in any way that can be considered an adequate address of the range.
I’d like to know what style has guys actually rolling, learning positioning, learning how to take or give while tangled up on the ground. I have yet to see that style and I’ve been into Kung Fu for a long time now.
TCMA has a lot to offer, but ground fighting is not one of those things. That’s fine, cross training makes us all better than the training you get in a bubble. Even old guys know this, that’s why most of the good sifu out there had several sifu themselves.
Nowadays, it is a sea of choices and some of them are going to be bad wherever you go, but we shouldn’t even try and sell a lie. Be honest and be truthful and be aware that TCMA simply doesn’t address many tactical situations. It also addresses a lot of artism which is not practical or functional.
No big deal. It’s better to be honest with your art and not betray it with lies you make up because your ego is too big to admit you don’t have an answer to a question. That is even worse and in fact that is what I despise most about TCMA.
I refuse to celebrate lies. That’s dishonest and frankly, it’s stupid and kills the arts.[/QUOTE]
I would politely ask you not to call me a liar!
If you are not aware of the fact that some TCMAs address the ground scenario, then that is fine too, as you are in the majority who claim to train “Kung fu”. Also, keep in mind that most kung fu out there is taught in an incompete manner, so there is no reason to think that your training has been otherwise - based on the point view you have just put across!
I will repeat again, the Mainland Chinese lineage of Wing Chun that I train has ground fighting training as part of its traditional curriculum. So, take that to the bank!
Sifu Mike Patterson, in another thread has stated that during his time of training Hsing I in Taiwan, he did ground fighting. He also said that this type of training was the norm in those days and in that part of the world.
I have posted a Tiger Claw style video which also shows ground fighting aspects.
So, it is a LIE to say that the TCMAs do not address the ground!
As regards the TCMAs addressing groundfighting and in the name of enlightenment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJR5Jb1oQPY
The caption below the above link says “Just sharing some knowledge for those who don’t know there has been ground fighting and submission in Shaolin and all Kung Fu for centuries. Hope your knowledge is increased.”
This video is the link that I have posted before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20SLgNb9Ds&feature=related
Here are some pictures from an old Chinese Chin-na book. This link was first posted by Phil Redmond in the Wing Chun forum. Not all of it shows the ground that there some that show TCMA techniques addressing the ground:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2JlPEbfitI
I hope that the links have been enlightening.
If you have any doubts left, then feel free to ask sifu Mike Patterson, as he will be able to enlighten you further. I can’t do more than this, because I am not a sifu.
My first TCMA teachers were three brothers who all cross-trained, and were all street fighters. Each cross trained at least three styles. The eldest of the brothers did both Dai-Shing Pek Gwa (with Chan Sau Chung) and, Japanese Judo, as well as SPM. The middle brother did Lion’s Roar with Shuia-Chiao and Chin Na incorporated, plus Wing Chun, and Western Boxing. The youngest brother did Lion’s Roar with Muay-Thai and Tai-Chi. The middle brother told me in no uncertain terms that if a fight went to the ground and I couldn’t handle it, I’d be finished. He broke my arm by way of explanation. As well as their own styles, they regularly cross-trained with each other, and with invited people from outside. They made us fight full contact which was rare in 1973 in the UK. Did I ever compete in combat sporets? Nope. Did what I did in those early years help me defend myself/test myself? Yep, in 13 years of frontline law enforecment. Would I have been any good as a combat sports athlete? I doubt it. Did what I trained help me in my chosen area of pressure testing? Yep, absolutely (see above). Did what I did in groundwork match up to BJJ? Nope. Did I continue with TCMA? Yep, for the past 38 out of 44 years of my MA training. What did I start my own son on? Judo and Muay-Thai, before getting him some experience with BJJ and MMA. What’s he doing now after that base? TCMA. Why? Coz it’s what he wants to do. Is TCMA ‘complete’? Unto itself, yep. Can it evolve? Yep. Should it evolve? IMHO, yeah.
My first TCMA teachers were three brothers who all cross-trained, and were all street fighters. Each cross trained at least three styles. The eldest of the brothers did both Dai-Shing Pek Gwa (with Chan Sau Chung) and, Japanese Judo, as well as SPM. The middle brother did Lion’s Roar with Shuia-Chiao and Chin Na incorporated, plus Wing Chun, and Western Boxing. The youngest brother did Lion’s Roar with Muay-Thai and Tai-Chi. The middle brother told me in no uncertain terms that if a fight went to the ground and I couldn’t handle it, I’d be finished. He broke my arm by way of explanation. As well as their own styles, they regularly cross-trained with each other, and with invited people from outside. They made us fight full contact which was rare in 1973 in the UK. Did I ever compete in combat sporets? Nope. Did what I did in those early years help me defend myself/test myself? Yep, in 13 years of frontline law enforecment. Would I have been any good as a combat sports athlete? I doubt it. Did what I trained help me in my chosen area of pressure testing? Yep, absolutely (see above). Did what I did in groundwork match up to BJJ? Nope. Did I continue with TCMA? Yep, for the past 38 out of 45 years of my MA training. What did I start my own son on? Judo and Muay-Thai, before getting him some experience with BJJ and MMA. What’s he doing now after that base? TCMA. Why? Coz it’s what he wants to do. Is TCMA ‘complete’? Unto itself, yep. Can it evolve? Yep. Should it evolve? IMHO, yeah.
but I have seen what I have said here bashed plenty of times.
a lot of times its not What you state, it’s how you state it. You honestly have the worst presentational skills I have come across.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1139499]a lot of times its not What you state, it’s how you state it. You honestly have the worst presentational skills I have come across.[/QUOTE]
Or perhaps truth and the consequent enlightenment hurt those who are “caught by surprise”?
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1139525]Or perhaps truth and the consequent enlightenment hurt those who are “caught by surprise”?[/QUOTE]
It must have sucked for you back in high school as the guy who always got beat up and never got laid.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1139545]It must have sucked for you back in high school as the guy who always got beat up and never got laid.;)[/QUOTE]
Actually, the highschool I attended was a very civilized institution. I only have fond memories of the place.
As for getting laid, let me tell you that I have been working in nightclubs for over 22 years. That is in London, Rio de Janeiro and here in Cali. Basically, what I am trying to tell you is that I have gotten laid more times than you have had dinners.
So, it seems that not only I know more about authentic kung fu practice than you do, but also I have more fun and know more about the ladies too.
Or perhaps truth and the consequent enlightenment hurt those who are “caught by surprise”?
Nope usually its your abrasive demeanor.
Would you two like the rest of us to leave you alone?