I have come across references to Northern Mantis groundfighting techniques. The Wing Chun lineage that I practice has its own genuine ground fighting techniques and my sifu had told me that other major kung fu styles also have their own.
The first time that I heard about Northern Mantis ground fighting was in a magazine letters section where a 7 Star Mantis practitioner from Singapore mentioned that in his kung fu school the ground fighting aspects were trained as part of their curriculum.
Recently, the forum member EarthDragon who practices 8 Step Praying Mantis mentioned Mantis groundfighting. This made me very curious as I would like to learn more about how this style(s) of kung fu approach this area of combat.
So I would be grateful to see more info about this from EarthDragon and others who practice Northern Mantis.
I believe that most systems have techniques when fighting from a fallen position. Most fights usually end up on the ground, so it would be foolish to not have knowledge of what to do when this happens. While some systems spend almost all of thier time in these positions to say that kung fu does not is way off base.
when the UFC came about and starting becoming popluar my kung fu brother who was a born fighter asked our teacher to train him so he could enter. He said if you want to enter that type of competition you must train mantis on the ground… we looked at each other and said but kung fu doesnt have ground techniques.. he said all complete systems have this otherwise they are not complete.
We would train to engage in sparring then to a jointlock then to a throw, then follow our opponent to the ground and proceed to use another lock untill one of us tapped. thios went on for months. sometimes we would start on the ground and work from the top or the bottom. while some of the techniques taught were definatly not kung fu looking my teacher said that to win that type of fighting you must fight and train the waty they do.
He went on to win his bouts in UFC 6 &7 seven being the bloodiest UFC match in history
ROTFLMAO - Great one Jim:D
Well, my mawashi is in the mawashi-machine, and frankly I have given up! People can believe what they wish! My words, nor my experience matter much to those set in their ways. To each their own!
Cheers
Jake
(flying out of my Mawashi… that’s funny **** right there!!)
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;910350]I believe that most systems have techniques when fighting from a fallen position. Most fights usually end up on the ground, so it would be foolish to not have knowledge of what to do when this happens. While some systems spend almost all of thier time in these positions to say that kung fu does not is way off base.
when the UFC came about and starting becoming popluar my kung fu brother who was a born fighter asked our teacher to train him so he could enter. He said if you want to enter that type of competition you must train mantis on the ground… we looked at each other and said but kung fu doesnt have ground techniques.. he said all complete systems have this otherwise they are not complete.
We would train to engage in sparring then to a jointlock then to a throw, then follow our opponent to the ground and proceed to use another lock untill one of us tapped. thios went on for months. sometimes we would start on the ground and work from the top or the bottom. while some of the techniques taught were definatly not kung fu looking my teacher said that to win that type of fighting you must fight and train the waty they do.
He went on to win his bouts in UFC 6 &7 seven being the bloodiest UFC match in history[/QUOTE]
Thank you EarthDragon. I have not reached the groundfighting aspects of Siu Lam Wing Chun yet but I know that even on the ground the Wing Chun principles are adhered to using strikes and chin-na techniques.
It is so good to hear of Kung fu schools that teach complete systems completely!
If more schools did this then perhaps there would not be so much misunderstanding about the art(s) of kung fu that we see nowadays.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;910594] I have not reached the groundfighting aspects of Siu Lam Wing Chun .[/QUOTE]
But that hasn’t stopped you from telling people with many, many, many times more experience grappling than you have experience with ANYTHING, what they do or do not know.
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;910644]Jesus!!! Now the Wing Chunners are coming over to the Mantis group spreading their drama! Plenty of drama with the Mantis folks, leave us be please!![/QUOTE]
Oso,
If you are going to go into a cage type fight i would say that you wouod be foolish not to cross train. He did work a little with Kin tora judo guys and with some boxing coaches. But I can assure you shyun taught us ground fighting, I know becuase I was Joels partner in SF when he was training. Now weather or not the ground fighting that he taught was tradional 8 step we will never know, but it did incorporate our joint coks and throws and flowed seemlessly like all mantis does from the attack to the finish.
I remember a newspaper in S.F doing a story about him entering into the newly created UFC and the story was about tradional kung fu in this event
The photographer caught a picture of him pushing a water filled 55 drum up a hill.
Now many people will say this technique doesnt come from 8 step.. but as a
“8 step practioner or sifu” doing this would it be considered cross training or mantis?
Incorrect about one little aspect…
It was NOT from Babu Tanglang! There is no record of ANY CMA have a comprehensive curriculum for ground combat, and Babu is certainly not the exception.
Jake,
not to disagree as I said my teacher may have very well added ground work to 8 step to prepare us for the octogan, but I found this article on a webiste as I have found hundreds (too many to list here) but there are many about mantis ground fighting.
When a Seven Star Praying Mantis practitioner gains experience against other styles of fighting then he can apply the principles and concepts of his system to overcome each type of fighting approach. This includes, for example, grappling on the ground. Once the skills of a ground-grappling stylist are understood the principles and concepts of Seven Star Praying Mantis, such as redirection, joint manipulation, pressure point attacks, and trapping tactics can be employed to successfully neutralize and defend against this fighting range.
and robert (mantis 108) wrote this
Beside the 64 Sau Fa, TCPM also uses the Ground Mantis (Tei Tong Long) to train for ground fighting situations. This set has a section of sisscors legs (2 - 4 0f them) which I believe is where all the ground fighting techniques are hidden in. There is a believe that every Mantis set has a two mened mirror set. Currently only 2 men Bum Bo set remains. It is quite possible that the Ground Mantis’s two mened set was lost as well. Personally, I think Mantis were one time very formidable amongst other styles was that they trained with a partner at all times. By this simple training practice, they gain the benefit of realistic drills (full speed and power) over and over again. Can you not be good if you are at it every day 2 to 3 hours constant drilling like that? Isn’t it why the Boxing, KickBoxing, and NHB people critize Kung Fu. Somewhere along the line our training practices were changed. Isn’t it time for us Kung Fu people
to look into this seriosly again?
so to say there is NO record of ANY CMA have a comprehensive curriculum for ground combat is false…
Again, once more, their is a difference between having a few moves that you do when someone is STANDING ABOVE YOU, and their being a set curriculum for ground combat (TWO people are engaged on the GROUND!! NOT one standing above the other!).
Robert has admitted that the majority of the ground stuff he does with TWO PEOPLE on the ground is drawn from BJJ, and Sambo. I assume he has trained some with guests and what not in his hometown.
Neither of what you offer is viable. It is simply people stating an opinion, not fact. EVERYONE and their brother in the CMA community is talking about adaptation and how ground fighting has “ALWAYS” been in their curriculum. That is why it has been seen in demos, and videos, and tournaments all these years:rolleyes:
These are people simply trying to mask their fear of the unknown with a veil of a false reality.
I have a foot in both worlds, but I tell you something… the grappling / BJJ / Sambo / Judo community thinks that CMArtists are a ****ing joke! And frankly it has all been self perpetuated. We have done this to ourselves.
Have some dignity guys. It is okay to let go of the ego and admit “your” style does not have everything. Grapplers admit it. Thai Boxers admit. Western Boxers admit it. Why can’t the CMA community as a whole admit it?
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;910771] Have some dignity guys. It is okay to let go of the ego and admit “your” style does not have everything. Grapplers admit it. Thai Boxers admit. Western Boxers admit it. Why can’t the CMA community as a whole admit it? [/QUOTE]
Maybe because that might lead to admitting other unpleasant things?
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;910771]Again, once more, their is a difference between having a few moves that you do when someone is STANDING ABOVE YOU, and their being a set curriculum for ground combat (TWO people are engaged on the GROUND!! NOT one standing above the other!).
Robert has admitted that the majority of the ground stuff he does with TWO PEOPLE on the ground is drawn from BJJ, and Sambo. I assume he has trained some with guests and what not in his hometown.
Neither of what you offer is viable. It is simply people stating an opinion, not fact. EVERYONE and their brother in the CMA community is talking about adaptation and how ground fighting has “ALWAYS” been in their curriculum. That is why it has been seen in demos, and videos, and tournaments all these years:rolleyes:
These are people simply trying to mask their fear of the unknown with a veil of a false reality.
I have a foot in both worlds, but I tell you something… the grappling / BJJ / Sambo / Judo community thinks that CMArtists are a ****ing joke! And frankly it has all been self perpetuated. We have done this to ourselves.
Have some dignity guys. It is okay to let go of the ego and admit “your” style does not have everything. Grapplers admit it. Thai Boxers admit. Western Boxers admit it. Why can’t the CMA community as a whole admit it?
Cheers
Jake[/QUOTE]
Very well said. Tim would be proud
Fact is, no style is an island and that has always been the case as we can see historically with the “great ones” cross training in other MA systems.
