what does this mean to the WCners out there?
in order to move dynamically, adapt, issue and receive force without hard resistance, staying balanced…
hard bow and soft bow?
how is it conditioned? how is it developed?
The “WCK body” or body structure is a learned skill. The easiest way to learn any skill is to have someone with that skill teach you HOW TO DO IT. Then you develop that skill, get better at it, by DOING IT.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049682]The “WCK body” or body structure is a learned skill. The easiest way to learn any skill is to have someone with that skill teach you HOW TO DO IT. Then you develop that skill, get better at it, by DOING IT.[/QUOTE]
T, I think Theo is asking how different WCK peple apply this learnt skill for example which alignment and biomechanics are involved in the WCK body methods. Perhaps you can share your method of WCK body usage instead of pulling a Henrik.
my body methods is very similar to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePHdXgpAdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j_lsIPgMcE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWJQzrbKf4&feature=channel
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049742]T, I think Theo is asking how different WCK peple apply this learnt skill for example which alignment and biomechanics are involved in the WCK body methods. Perhaps you can share your method of WCK body usage.
my body methods is very similar to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePHdXgpAdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j_lsIPgMcE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWJQzrbKf4&feature=channel[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I think that much of what that guy says is theoretical bullsh1t. He is, in my view, a great example of what is wrong with WCK.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049757]Sorry, but I think that much of what that guy says is theoretical bullsh1t. He is, in my view, a great example of what is wrong with WCK.[/QUOTE]
Okay everyone is entitled to their opinion, Perhaps you can share your method of WCK body usage instead of pulling a Henrik:)
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049760]Okay everyone is entitled to their opinion, Perhaps you can share your method of WCK body usage instead of pulling a Henrik:)[/QUOTE]
It’s not “my method” but WCK’s method.
What is WCK body structure for?
To be able to push, pull, twist, sink, rise, wedge, strike, etc. the opponent so that we can break his structure and keep it broken all the while thumping him, AND to be able to “resist” being pushed, pulled, twisted, sunk, uprooted, wedged, struck, etc. by our opponent so that I can maintain my body structure intact.
How do I use my body? To do that.
How do you learn and develop that? By doing it.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049783]It’s not “my method” but WCK’s method.
What is WCK body structure for?
To be able to push, pull, twist, sink, rise, wedge, strike, etc. the opponent so that we can break his structure and keep it broken all the while thumping him, AND to be able to “resist” being pushed, pulled, twisted, sunk, uprooted, wedged, struck, etc. by our opponent so that I can maintain my body structure intact.
How do I use my body? To do that.
How do you learn and develop that? By doing it.[/QUOTE]
understood!
How do you use our waist/lower back/core area in wck?
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049792]understood!
How do you use our waist/lower back/core area in wck?[/QUOTE]
If you understood, then you’d know the answer to your own question.
No one can tell you these things. It is not knowledge or understanding gotten from someone else. It is a skill. And the skill you learn by doing.
WCK’s method is to control while striking the opponent. The method is the key to the puzzle, to putting the pieces together, it provides the context.
To control him, we need to get to the inside (you can’t control from a distance) and push, pull, twist, sink, rise, wedge, strike, etc. the opponent so that we can break his structure and keep it broken. This uses the WCK toolbox, including body leverage, the movement/actions (tan, bong, fook, etc.) and the tactics (mun, jou, tun, tao, etc.). You need to also be able to strike him while doing this.
The other side of the coin is that you don’t want your opponent to be able to control you, so your body needs to be able to “resist” being pushed, pulled, twisted, sunk, uprooted, wedged, struck, etc. by our opponent.
How does your waist/lower back fit into this? It depends. But the only way to KNOW is by DOING it.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049798]
To control him, we need to get to the inside (you can’t control from a distance) and push, pull, twist, sink, rise, wedge, strike, etc. the opponent so that we can break his structure and keep it broken. This uses the WCK toolbox, including body leverage, the movement/actions (tan, bong, fook, etc.) and the tactics (mun, jou, tun, tao, etc.). You need to also be able to strike him while doing this.
The other side of the coin is that you don’t want your opponent to be able to control you, so your body needs to be able to “resist” being pushed, pulled, twisted, sunk, uprooted, wedged, struck, etc. by our opponent.
[/QUOTE]
How does your body mechanics to control and strike different from what Alan Orr in discribing in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJQrbD7jL8
What’s the advance way that Robert Chu taught you to use your hip/waist area?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049798]If you understood, then you’d know the answer to your own question.
No one can tell you these things. It is not knowledge or understanding gotten from someone else. It is a skill. And the skill you learn by doing.
WCK’s method is to control while striking the opponent. The method is the key to the puzzle, to putting the pieces together, it provides the context.
To control him, we need to get to the inside (you can’t control from a distance) and push, pull, twist, sink, rise, wedge, strike, etc. the opponent so that we can break his structure and keep it broken. This uses the WCK toolbox, including body leverage, the movement/actions (tan, bong, fook, etc.) and the tactics (mun, jou, tun, tao, etc.). You need to also be able to strike him while doing this.
The other side of the coin is that you don’t want your opponent to be able to control you, so your body needs to be able to “resist” being pushed, pulled, twisted, sunk, uprooted, wedged, struck, etc. by our opponent.
How does your waist/lower back fit into this? It depends. But the only way to KNOW is by DOING it.[/QUOTE]
From what I see T saying, its very clear.
Having skill is being able to use that in the moment.
The idea of the waist is to get under the opponent and displace him, setting up for all kinds of strikes, off balancing, and striking with the flow, and to stop your flow. Battle shifts very quickly, so it can’t be done slowly - once you have the understanding, it has to be put under pressure testing.
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049814]From what I see T saying, its very clear.
Having skill is being able to use that in the moment.
The idea of the waist is to get under the opponent and displace him, setting up for all kinds of strikes, off balancing, and striking with the flow, and to stop your flow. Battle shifts very quickly, so it can’t be done slowly - once you have the understanding, it has to be put under pressure testing.[/QUOTE]
So the WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to the way it’s used in greco roman wrestling?
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049819]So the WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to the way it’s used in greco roman wrestling?[/QUOTE]
Your questions are pointless – it is like asking: how does a surfer use his waist? The answer is: he does what he needs to do to stay on the board. How does a WCK fighter use his waist? He does what he needs to do to control the opponent while striking him. You find out what this is by doing it. Not by talking about it or theorizing about it. It cannot be described because it is dynamic, constantly adjusting to the moment.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049819]So the WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to the way it’s used in greco roman wrestling?[/QUOTE]
If you know WCK, why do you ask me for verification?
Do you think WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to greco-roman wrestling?
Then mathematically you think:
WCK = Greco-roman wrestling?
I’ve only studied a few throws from greco-roman, but nothing serious…so how can I answer that?
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049830]If you know WCK, why do you ask me for verification?
Do you think WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to greco-roman wrestling?
Then mathematically you think:
WCK = Greco-roman wrestling?[/QUOTE]
I am just trying to get an understanding for how you guys generate your wck body structure.
in Greco, they also try to get their hips underneath the opponent’s center to uproot him
I used Greco hip mechanics as a comparrission, but i know you use wck tools and concepts, instead of wrestling.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049838]I am just trying to get an understanding for how you guys generate your wck body structure.
in Greco, they also try to get their hips underneath the opponent’s center to uproot him
I used Greco hip mechanics as a comparrission, but i know you use wck tools and concepts, instead of wrestling.[/QUOTE]
If you want to learn how we generate our WCK body structure, come and learn. We welcome sincere, educated people, but teaching you on a forum is ridiculous. This is not a proper medium to teach you properly.
Are we doing suplexes in WCK?
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049852]If you want to learn how we generate our WCK body structure, come and learn. We welcome sincere, educated people, but teaching you on a forum is ridiculous. This is not a proper medium to teach you properly.
Are we doing suplexes in WCK?[/QUOTE]
I am not asking for you to teach it on a forum, I am just trying to get an idea of how you guys do it in your advance level, since the body structure/mechanics on Alan Orr’s Dvd’s are just a beginner level.
is your advance level of body structure covered on your masterclass wing chun DVD’s?
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049862]I am not asking for you to teach it on a forum, I am just trying to get an idea of how you guys do it in your advance level, since the body structure/mechanics on Alan Orr’s Dvd’s are just a beginner level.
is your advance level of body structure covered on your masterclass wing chun DVD’s?[/QUOTE]
T’s surfer analogy is a very good one.
Attachment to labels of “advanced” and “basic” can be a problem.
You wanna know a secret?
“Advanced” is nothing but “basics” applied.
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049864]T’s surfer analogy is a very good one.
Attachment to labels of “advanced” and “basic” can be a problem.
You wanna know a secret?
“Advanced” is nothing but “basics” applied.[/QUOTE]
The body structure/ hip mechanics that Alan demo’s on this clip is ming jin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJQrbD7jL8
What i am trying to find out more about is your body structure/mechanics that’s involved in An Jing - hiding the power?
is the body structure/mechanics the same in both ming jing and an jing, just done subtler in an jing like at 2:10 into this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkp19KV9xg&feature=related
KFF,
What is Ming Jing, An Jing, Hua Jing?
You can answer your own question.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049862]I am not asking for you to teach it on a forum, I am just trying to get an idea of how you guys do it in your advance level, since the body structure/mechanics on Alan Orr’s Dvd’s are just a beginner level.
is your advance level of body structure covered on your masterclass wing chun DVD’s?[/QUOTE]
You are not going to “get the idea” except by DOING it yourself. (I keep saying that but you’re not getting the idea!).
You are confused – when you say “how you guys do it” shows this confusion. No one can show you how to use your waist to stay on a surfboard; it is not something you get (not even the “idea”) from anyone else. You can’t see it nor can it be explained (much of it is not conscious anyway). You can only experience it yourself by DOING it – by surfing. The surfing itself teaches you, perhaps even unconsciously, how to use your waist.
What Robert and Alan show is the stuff to get YOU started (started doing it).