Hey everyone,
So I’ve been shifting on my heel for some time and am interested in shifting on the K1.
I’m an Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor, therefore I understand the principles behind the shift.
However…can someone (or everyone) describe to me how to do it? When I try to shift just behind the ball of the foot…I either DO shift on the ball or I feel like my knees are going to blow out due to the weird pressure.
Thanks in advance!
Kenton Sefcik
There isnt a simple fix, it will take some training time as i find bad stance habits harder to break than sloppy hands. It sounds like weight distribution is a playing a role here. Try sinking in your stance while practicing shifting in order to force proper wieght distribution. You weight shouldnt be so far back as to shift on the heel or too foward such that you are on the toes or ball of the foot. The other exorcise i find useful in stance problems is practicing Huen Ma from the Bil Jee form.
“I’m an Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor, therefore I understand the principles behind the shift.”
Could you explain these to a layman with some experience in TCM (see the link below)? And why this is preferable to a purely mechanistic/kinesiological approach?
Sincere questions, not a challenge.
TIA
[QUOTE=anerlich;736670]“I’m an Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor, therefore I understand the principles behind the shift.”
Could you explain these to a layman with some experience in TCM (see the link below)? And why this is preferable to a purely mechanistic/kinesiological approach?
Sincere questions, not a challenge.
TIA[/QUOTE]
I honestly don’t know about the latter. That’s why I’m experimenting with the K1 now. I’m a proud heel shifter (I teach this method)! I love the mobility, etc. I love how I can lean forward, backward, etc, move…with the heel shifting. Just playing around with it.
However, from a TCM background, the most plausible explanation is the connection to the ground. It is the acupuncture point which connects “man” between heaven and earth - while Du20 http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=GV20&meridian=Governing20Vessel is what connects us with the Big Dipper/Heaven.
How do you shift Andrew? Anywho…either way we shift…I’ll be sure to kick a55!!!
Best,
Kenton Sefcik
However, from a TCM background, the most plausible explanation is the connection to the ground. It is the acupuncture point which connects “man” between heaven and earth - while Du20 http://images.google.ca/images?clien...earch+Imag es is what connects us with the Big Dipper/Heaven.
I figured it was something like that. Don’t see the relevance of the link though (index of thumbnails of YM and BL?)
In TWC we try to shift using small steps, rather than just pivoting on the balls or heels. I’ve alway been told the balls of the foot are most important, but in practice I’ve found I use both significantly.
TCM principles aside, I’d be a bit wary - if you’re knees are saying “This hurts”, it’s prabably a bad idea. Having to get you technique millimeter correct to avoid knee damage to adhere to a principle whose real-world value is unclear doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
Anywho…either way we shift…I’ll be sure to kick a55!!!
And that HAS to be the untimate yardstick of effectiveness and correctness.
Hi couch
It is correct to use K1. The heels lack control of power when you receive force.
You may use the whole foot at times when loading weight, but to issue forward pressure you must transfer weight from the whole foot to K1.
This is from one of my articles:
Ging Chong Gwut Gun Faat, Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sheng - Power comes from bones and tendons, strength originates from the heels
Often people describe power in Wing Chun being delivered by bone power or bone alignment. Unfortunately, what you often see is locking out of the joints, i.e. the main punching arm will be extended at the elbow and shoulder. This is a very limited source of power development and more importantly causes severe damage in the long term to the elbow and to the rotor-cuff of the shoulder. (As a practitioner of Chinese medicine, I can confirm that I have often had to treat this problem with new students). Now, locking the joints out on impact does produce a release of power but this is only a small amount compared to the power that can be produced with the whole body structure via kinetic linking to the ground. One of the main benefits of this type of body connection alignment is that not only can you issue power in this manner due to the “spring” nature of the body but you can also absorb power through the body into the ground without taking undue pressure into the joints. If you align your body in this correct manner the joints will absorb pressure and redirect the pressure without effort into the ground and the tendons will twist and strengthen and become stronger with this practice. Therefore when we talk about strength originating from the heels this is really talking about absorbing pressure and rooting therefore explaining the nature of the body in its spring position.
“Power originates from the heels, travels up the ankle and knee joints, is in conjunction with the waist, issues forth from the body and rib cage, travels down the shoulders, to the elbow, to the wrist and manifests from the hands”. -Robert Chu Sigung
Let me sort out the missing links for you. Kinetic linking is a term which describes how to correctly load gravitational forces in your body.
Generating maximum mass is achieved through the alignment of the ankle, knee, hip, shoulder and elbow. These are the kinetic links in which power is generated and transferred. Should one of these links be out of alignment, its ability to transfer power from the rest of the body is reduced. To issue power using these mechanics you push your body forward and upward, making sure the three dan tian are moving in sequence, from bottom to top (Qi Hai > Tan Zhong > Yin Tang). Your three dan tian points are located approximately at the same positions as your segmented centers of gravity. So what you’re doing is pushing your entire mass forward and upward using all the aligned kinetic links (joints) in your body. Whether stepping or stationary, the principles remain the same. This is what is meant by using power from the ground up. Naturally, rooting power into the ground is done using the same mechanics.
The problem you will have in combat if you are locking out your joints is that you have committed your striking power. Therefore if you have actually missed your target you will find yourself exposed and also will have no stored power available. When I think of this I would say it is like having only one arrow, once you’ve shot that arrow you’ll have none left. If you generate your power from the ground you’ll have an endless source of ammunition. So now you have an automatic machine-gun! Therefore if you punch and miss you can then readjust and re-fire much more quickly and much more effectively because you haven’t over-committed your arm position. The fact is, the body alignment and body position are the important factors in generating power.
Go to www.alanorr.com for the full article.
My best
Alan
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;736843]Hi couch
It is correct to use K1. The heels lack control of power when you receive force.
You may use the whole foot at times when loading weight, but to issue forward pressure you must transfer weight from the whole foot to K1.
This is from one of my articles:
Ging Chong Gwut Gun Faat, Lik Chong Gerk Jang Sheng - Power comes from bones and tendons, strength originates from the heels
Often people describe power in Wing Chun being delivered by bone power or bone alignment. Unfortunately, what you often see is locking out of the joints, i.e. the main punching arm will be extended at the elbow and shoulder. This is a very limited source of power development and more importantly causes severe damage in the long term to the elbow and to the rotor-cuff of the shoulder. (As a practitioner of Chinese medicine, I can confirm that I have often had to treat this problem with new students). Now, locking the joints out on impact does produce a release of power but this is only a small amount compared to the power that can be produced with the whole body structure via kinetic linking to the ground. One of the main benefits of this type of body connection alignment is that not only can you issue power in this manner due to the “spring” nature of the body but you can also absorb power through the body into the ground without taking undue pressure into the joints. If you align your body in this correct manner the joints will absorb pressure and redirect the pressure without effort into the ground and the tendons will twist and strengthen and become stronger with this practice. Therefore when we talk about strength originating from the heels this is really talking about absorbing pressure and rooting therefore explaining the nature of the body in its spring position.
“Power originates from the heels, travels up the ankle and knee joints, is in conjunction with the waist, issues forth from the body and rib cage, travels down the shoulders, to the elbow, to the wrist and manifests from the hands”. -Robert Chu Sigung
Let me sort out the missing links for you. Kinetic linking is a term which describes how to correctly load gravitational forces in your body.
Generating maximum mass is achieved through the alignment of the ankle, knee, hip, shoulder and elbow. These are the kinetic links in which power is generated and transferred. Should one of these links be out of alignment, its ability to transfer power from the rest of the body is reduced. To issue power using these mechanics you push your body forward and upward, making sure the three dan tian are moving in sequence, from bottom to top (Qi Hai > Tan Zhong > Yin Tang). Your three dan tian points are located approximately at the same positions as your segmented centers of gravity. So what you’re doing is pushing your entire mass forward and upward using all the aligned kinetic links (joints) in your body. Whether stepping or stationary, the principles remain the same. This is what is meant by using power from the ground up. Naturally, rooting power into the ground is done using the same mechanics.
The problem you will have in combat if you are locking out your joints is that you have committed your striking power. Therefore if you have actually missed your target you will find yourself exposed and also will have no stored power available. When I think of this I would say it is like having only one arrow, once you’ve shot that arrow you’ll have none left. If you generate your power from the ground you’ll have an endless source of ammunition. So now you have an automatic machine-gun! Therefore if you punch and miss you can then readjust and re-fire much more quickly and much more effectively because you haven’t over-committed your arm position. The fact is, the body alignment and body position are the important factors in generating power.
Go to www.alanorr.com for the full article.
My best
Alan[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing, Alan. Can you please explain to me how YOU teach someone to shift on this point? Do you instruct people to shift initially like the LT guys do it (one foot at a time) and then together, etc? Just playing around with this shift.
Best,
Kenton Sefcik
Hi Kenton
No problem. Most of it is in the article as such. Its all to do with how you use your weight, hips and kenetic power which you store in your stance.
You should centre your weight and turn from your hips on the balls of both feet. You hip should press forward and up as you turn. This is a very small movement. You do not turn your hips out you must know how to delink your joints to gain power in the turn and not over turn the hip ( which is what most people do).
You must know how to make your body light and when to make it heavy.
Hard to show on an email. I am going to post some clips from my video series very soon. I will show this on the clips, as I think it is one thing we do very differently in the Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun system.
My best
Alan
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;737093]Hi Kenton
No problem. Most of it is in the article as such. Its all to do with how you use your weight, hips and kenetic power which you store in your stance.
You should centre your weight and turn from your hips on the balls of both feet. You hip should press forward and up as you turn. This is a very small movement. You do not turn your hips out you must know how to delink your joints to gain power in the turn and not over turn the hip ( which is what most people do).
You must know how to make your body light and when to make it heavy.
Hard to show on an email. I am going to post some clips from my video series very soon. I will show this on the clips, as I think it is one thing we do very differently in the Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun system.
My best
Alan
www.alanorr.com[/QUOTE]
Maybe I’m missing something here.
In TCM, the K1 is in the middle of the width of the foot, anterior 1/3 (not including the toes). This I feel is mighty close to the arch. Is this not where your K1 lies, as you are talking about the BALLS of your feet?
http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=KI1&meridian=Kidney
Thanks for the discussion,
Kenton Sefcik
Hi Kenton
RE:
Maybe I’m missing something here.
Alan: I think you are, but thats because my method is maybe new to you. Again it not so easy to write about it and fully understand it.
RE:
In TCM, the K1 is in the middle of the width of the foot, anterior 1/3 (not including the toes). This I feel is mighty close to the arch. Is this not where your K1 lies, as you are talking about the BALLS of your feet?
http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPicture...eridian=Kidney
Alan: You are correct on where K1 is. But to know where the point is does not activate it. Wing Chun power comes from the heal - ie when you are standing on your whole feet you transfer weight forward away from the heal to the ball of the feet which in turn activates and pumps K1. The point is at the base of the ball of the foot, I don’t mean on your toes as such.
It order to do this you did to learn how to sink and rise your stand correctly. This moves the Chi and teaches the muscles to link and delink.
I hope that helps
My best
Alan
Alan
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;737099]Hi Kenton
RE:
Maybe I’m missing something here.
Alan: I think you are, but thats because my method is maybe new to you. Again it not so easy to write about it and fully understand it.
RE:
In TCM, the K1 is in the middle of the width of the foot, anterior 1/3 (not including the toes). This I feel is mighty close to the arch. Is this not where your K1 lies, as you are talking about the BALLS of your feet?
http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPicture...eridian=Kidney
Alan: You are correct on where K1 is. But to know where the point is does not activate it. Wing Chun power comes from the heal - ie when you are standing on your whole feet you transfer weight forward away from the heal to the ball of the feet which in turn activates and pumps K1. The point is at the base of the ball of the foot, I don’t mean on your toes as such.
It order to do this you did to learn how to sink and rise your stand correctly. This moves the Chi and teaches the muscles to link and delink.
I hope that helps
My best
Alan
Alan[/QUOTE]
That TOTALLY helps. You instruct well over the internet!
When I was first learning to shift on the heels, my instructor got me to push off of the foot to exaggerate the motion, but this linking/de-linking idea works well for getting the K1 to activate and now I can use it to shift.
I also did some punching with this new forward pressure and I can really feel a difference! I feel more solid and whatever I hit is taking more of the impact of the punch. It actually feels like the Ging that I’ve been “forcing” through excess shoulder movement.
Thank you very much!
Best,
Kenton Sefcik
Alan, does your method have anything to do with the TSK form from HG?
nice info on here 
couch,
this is totally off topic but its williams not roper 
[QUOTE=stricker;737302]nice info on here
couch,
this is totally off topic but its williams not roper ;)[/QUOTE]
Nice to know people read sig’s!!!
Thanks much. Williams…played by Jim Kelly!
http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/jim-kelly.htm
Will fix soon.
Best,
Kenton Sefcik
Hi Guy b
RE:
Alan, does your method have anything to do with the TSK form from HG?
Alan:
Sorry Guy, I’m not sure who you mean. My system is Chu Su Lei Wing Chun. You can read the articles on my web site www.alanorr.com. But when you have time do come down and see what we do. I’m sure you will enjoyed the training.
Body Structure is the key to wing chun.
My best
Alan
[QUOTE=Alan Orr;737403]Alan, does your method have anything to do with the TSK form from HG?[/QUOTE]Alan - Tit Seen Kuen (Iron Wire Boxing form) from Hung Gar.
Reason I ask is that Tid sin kuen is the foundational “power” set in hung gar, and i believe that Robert Chu knows it. It is very effective from what I have heard. The set has been grafted into other short systems before (eg Tony Leung’s steelwire mantis from chow gar in the 1980’s). Wing chun would seem like a prime candidate for inclusion of this set.
[QUOTE=guy b.;737505]Reason I ask is that Tid sin kuen is the foundational “power” set in hung gar, and i believe that Robert Chu knows it. It is very effective from what I have heard. The set has been grafted into other short systems before (eg Tony Leung’s steelwire mantis from chow gar in the 1980’s). Wing chun would seem like a prime candidate for inclusion of this set.[/QUOTE]
Robert’s body structure methods come from Hawkins Cheung, his teacher (if you look at them both, they use their bodies in the same general way). Hawkins does not (to my knowledge) know or practice Hung Ga or TSK. Hawkins/Robert’s body structure is simply a way (not the only way) of taking those things that are in WCK and making them functional. WCK has its own methods for generating/receiving power and they are “integrated” into its techniques; trying to add a different means of generating power (using the body) won’t integrate (try using karate body with boxing hands – it won’t work because the hands and body need to work together as an integrated unit).
Just my view of course.
Terence
Hung gar method will integrate, since wing chun is contained within hung gar.