[QUOTE=chusauli;1049880]KFF,
What is Ming Jing, An Jing, Hua Jing?
You can answer your own question.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I’ll answer the question: they are all bullsh1t.
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049880]KFF,
What is Ming Jing, An Jing, Hua Jing?
You can answer your own question.[/QUOTE]
Ming Jing - a level of obvious power… it is just a beginner’s level.
An Jing - hiding the power.
Hua Jing - Changing/neutralization power
is An Jing covered in the last clip i posted above? or on your masterclass wc DVD’s?
is An Jing just a refined version of ming jing in your body structure method?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1049884]Hey, I’ll answer the question: they are all bullsh1t.[/QUOTE]
Terence, in a way, is absolutely correct. 
Its all BS - with artificial labels given to movement in a moment in time. But real movement is oneness.
A lotta hot air given to describe what is fundamentally alive and moving and changing.
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049864]T’s surfer analogy is a very good one.
Attachment to labels of “advanced” and “basic” can be a problem.
You wanna know a secret?
“Advanced” is nothing but “basics” applied.[/QUOTE]
Actually the more “advanced” you become the more you seem to get back to basic
So the WCK hip waist area is used almost identical to the way it’s used in greco roman wrestling?
There’s probably some commonality. I think though if you asked most wrestlers how their structure worked, they’d say to you much the same things T and Robert are saying now.
Are we doing suplexes in WCK?
If we’re doing “bil gee guillotines”, why not a “chum kil suplex”? 
T’s surfer analogy is a very good one.
Bah. More uninformed drivel from theoretical non-surfers. 
[QUOTE=theo;1049610]what does this mean to the WCners out there?
in order to move dynamically, adapt, issue and receive force without hard resistance, staying balanced…
hard bow and soft bow?
how is it conditioned? how is it developed?[/QUOTE]
IMHO,
the very basic of a development is a reference for one to follow.
Thus, one needs to know, to feel, to experience that reference as the first step.
In the ancient TCMA, This is the initiation. As we know the sifu’s job is to Open the Horse for one. That Open Horse or Hoi Ma is an initiation.
For me in Yik Kam lineage, the initiation is the equal shoulder stance. The attainment is “levitation” in today’s term mean one needs to have an experience on the following:
A, the body’s every joints/muscle/sinews loosen up or Opening the energy medirians of spine, joints…etc. open up the whole body’s blood flow from top to fingers and toes.
b, The breathing become nature and effortless.
c, The mind could enter the alpha state if one place a brain wave monitor to check. or enter into silence.
And it is only with the experience of the above one be able to proceed on to practice the SLT. This is because after the experience one has a reference.
Only after one has this “levitate” experience which is the A,b,and C happen in the same time, that one could know what is balance means and the six directional force…etc. it is not an intellecturized concept or intentional intent, it is simply to experience the nature phenomenon of the body without the interupt of the mind.
“levitate” is not grounding as what in general means, in general doing grounding in YJKYM is either causing tension on their knees and feet. the lower their stance the more tense their knees and the more they need to tense up their feets to balance the stance. the more they pushforward with a forward intention, the more they have to compensate backward. “levitate” simple means true neutra.
The tensing up the knees and horse and standing there as one could see in the Kung Fu movie is called Dead post where it is great to develop muscle power..etc. While “levitate” is called Live post it is target for six directional force and dynamic structure. These are two different type of cultivation and phenomenon.
Dead post is also called hard bow. and Live post is called soft bow.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1049885]Ming Jing - a level of obvious power… it is just a beginner’s level.
An Jing - hiding the power.
Hua Jing - Changing/neutralization power
is An Jing covered in the last clip i posted above? or on your masterclass wc DVD’s?
is An Jing just a refined version of ming jing in your body structure method?[/QUOTE]
Isnt it a suffering keep repeating these questions and not sure what is what?
There is no progress to be stucked in this state. and it is not worthed to get stuck this way.
Get a sifu to coach you and end your suffering.
God… now youre levitating…
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1050131]IMHO,
the very basic of a development is a reference for one to follow.
Thus, one needs to know, to feel, to experience that reference as the first step.
In the ancient TCMA, This is the initiation. As we know the sifu’s job is to Open the Horse for one. That Open Horse or Hoi Ma is an initiation.
For me in Yik Kam lineage, the initiation is the equal shoulder stance. The attainment is “levitation” in today’s term mean one needs to have an experience on the following:
A, the body’s every joints/muscle/sinews loosen up or Opening the energy medirians of spine, joints…etc. open up the whole body’s blood flow from top to fingers and toes.
b, The breathing become nature and effortless.
c, The mind could enter the alpha state if one place a brain wave monitor to check. or enter into silence.
And it is only with the experience of the above one be able to proceed on to practice the SLT. This is because after the experience one has a reference.
Only after one has this “levitate” experience which is the A,b,and C happen in the same time, that one could know what is balance means and the six directional force…etc. it is not an intellecturized concept or intentional intent, it is simply to experience the nature phenomenon of the body without the interupt of the mind.
“levitate” is not grounding as what in general means, in general doing grounding in YJKYM is either causing tension on their knees and feet. the lower their stance the more tense their knees and the more they need to tense up their feets to balance the stance. the more they pushforward with a forward intention, the more they have to compensate backward. “levitate” simple means true neutra.
The tensing up the knees and horse and standing there as one could see in the Kung Fu movie is called Dead post where it is great to develop muscle power..etc. While “levitate” is called Live post it is target for six directional force and dynamic structure. These are two different type of cultivation and phenomenon.
Dead post is also called hard bow. and Live post is called soft bow.[/QUOTE]
Lots of great posts in here, and I agree with the idea that do be able to do it, one needs to do it. That’s indisputable and the intent of my question was not to say one doesn’t need to practice. But the point was to ask, what does it mean, and how do we develop it? Sure you do it by doing it, but what are you doing? Just start chain punching and practicing a step turn? Plenty of people who “DO IT” but are still stiff as a board they have not conditioned their body to attain what Hendrik is referring to here as a reference point. If you’ve ever met anyone that truly has the lightness you will know, I have. Hendrik has a great explanation of hard and soft bow above, and this is what I was getting at. what does it mean and what do you have to have in order to not be a Dead Post? Does whatever you’re doing do it? Again, not implying anybody out there is wrong but raising some questions that I think is always good to ask ourselves.
[QUOTE=GlennR;1050146]God… now youre levitating…[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wChk5nY3Kzg&feature=player_embedded
[QUOTE=theo;1050195]Lots of great posts in here, and I agree with the idea that do be able to do it, one needs to do it. That’s indisputable and the intent of my question was not to say one doesn’t need to practice. But the point was to ask, what does it mean, and how do we develop it? Sure you do it by doing it, but what are you doing? Just start chain punching and practicing a step turn? Plenty of people who “DO IT” but are still stiff as a board they have not conditioned their body to attain what Hendrik is referring to here as a reference point. If you’ve ever met anyone that truly has the lightness you will know, I have. Hendrik has a great explanation of hard and soft bow above, and this is what I was getting at. what does it mean and what do you have to have in order to not be a Dead Post? Does whatever you’re doing do it? Again, not implying anybody out there is wrong but raising some questions that I think is always good to ask ourselves.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1050205]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBDexSzmMM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRShWun7Mc4&feature=related[/QUOTE]
Great clips Hendrik, it’s about the journey, no stopping starting, just doing. the journey itself is the magical part. and there is no replacement for that. but as you mentioned, I feel there needs to be a reference point. we can’t just start doing the forms over and over and over without being aware of what we’re trying to achieve. i.e. doing YJKYM with excessive clamping, etc…that’s a form of doing, but not doing it the right way.
we can’t master it or know it from speculating about it on the boards as Robert and others mentioned. i certainly believe that. there’s theory and then there’s application. my interest was in hearing what everybody understands this to be, because it seems to be something overlooked in my experience.
it’s like Hendrik mentioned, you can drive a car without knowing how it works, engine wise, suspension, etc. but i’m interested in knowing how it works and that’s why i appreciate everybody’s input. my own understanding of the wing chun body follows the concepts that I mentioned and in my lineage, the training and drills emphasize the body’s natural dynamics. but i wanted to see if we could take things a little deeper and get into the details.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1050211]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7MNB7zjBXk&feature=related[/QUOTE]
take out the trash!
Any one interested to have a reference point?
Come to Milpitas Borders 930AM this saturday. and then you could write about what is levitation here. RSVP
http://www.borders.com/online/store/StoreDetailView_87?schid=GLBC|Milpitas+CA|87
Will cancel it if no one RSVP
Hendrik, I’m interested and would like to attend. However I can’t make it in time because I’m out of the country for work at the moment. I know you’ve got other things to do, but is there any chance I could drop by on a different date? I’ve got family in southern California and will likely visit them later this year. I could work around your schedule if you’re going to be traveling or tied up with other things. Please let me know if this is possible!
[QUOTE=theo;1050695]Hendrik, I’m interested and would like to attend. However I can’t make it in time because I’m out of the country for work at the moment. I know you’ve got other things to do, but is there any chance I could drop by on a different date? I’ve got family in southern California and will likely visit them later this year. I could work around your schedule if you’re going to be traveling or tied up with other things. Please let me know if this is possible![/QUOTE]
Ok. let me know.
Anyone else interested in meet this satuday and bring a Video camera and post the clip in Youtube?
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1050979]Ok. let me know.
Anyone else interested in meet this satuday and bring a Video camera and post the clip in Youtube?[/QUOTE]
will do!
[QUOTE=chusauli;1049892]Terence, in a way, is absolutely correct. Its all BS - with artificial labels given to movement in a moment in time. But real movement is oneness.
A lotta hot air given to describe what is fundamentally alive and moving and changing.[/QUOTE]
Just reading through this and was going to say something similar - it’s BS in that it’s all one energy, one “engine of interaction”. Those are just lables to split up and codify (artificially isolate) individual interactions during that interaction for training purposes for students who need that. The one energy is simply a continuity of energy, which relies on said continuous and alive connection to stay a part of it and interact. Though if you have no idea what you’re actually touching when you make contact, establishing a kiu with, and interacting with, and instead are thinking of things in terms of limbs, all this will just go over someone’s head.
[QUOTE=martyg;1051317]Just reading through this and was going to say something similar - it’s BS in that it’s all one energy, one “engine of interaction”. Those are just lables to split up and codify (artificially isolate) individual interactions during that interaction for training purposes for students who need that. The one energy is simply a continuity of energy, which relies on said continuous and alive connection to stay a part of it and interact. Though if you have no idea what you’re actually touching when you make contact, establishing a kiu with, and interacting with, and instead are thinking of things in terms of limbs, all this will just go over someone’s head.[/QUOTE]
perhaps most of us started out thinking of things in terms of limbs, but eventually as one progresses, it becomes about the flow, which is shapeless and alive, changing.