I tried to resist on repling but couldn’ t help it.
i don’t want to start any flame war of any kind. but in regards to the challenge match, like knifefighter said, marsh was bigger, younger, stronger and i would like to add that he was also more trained, skilled, and experienced. that fight was off-balanced. if you reverse the rolls of the two, have a pro like Tony paterra (a san soo guy)and have bjj guy who watched tapes and only had 1 month of mat time and you would have had a reverse outcome between the two styles. my point is that sean was far outmatched and john would’ve cream alot of kung fu guys and probably most on this forum. and no knife im not going to fight anyone. im a newlywed and have my energies directed someplace else, if you know what i mean .
braden,
what makes san soo not a kung fu style. you live in ottawa. don’t think there are many san soo schools out there. if you are getting your info from what you have seen on the net, that my friend is ignorance. granted san soo doesn’t have fancy little names for stances and strikes, a lion dance, etc.. but who cares. jimmy taught at the cousin’s club in la’s chinatown for a number of years to the chinese there. i would gather that they know what kung fu is.
silumkid,
san soo is a joke! well there are many schools in the so. cal. that have many crappy instructors and schools. anyone can open a school. but i would like to disagree with you that san soo is a joke. there are many san soo practitioners and very few san soo fighters. san soo is a pure fighting art and a lot of instructors out there live in theory because they have never fought (the time in the 2nd grade doesn’t count as i would say to them). expose yourself to actual san soo people, before you make judgement. for example if san soo is a joke how come some of the best fighters in the world have taken it up. ken norton former heavyweight champ, kathy long women’s kickboxing champ, don’t you think those two would have seen through a joke. there are many san soo people who study a lot of grappling like judo and bjj with some of the best like the muchado’s and gene labell. but their base is still san soo and still practice san soo. plus there a few san soo guys who do nhb and do fairly well in it.
everyone have a safe and fun labor day weekend.
“you can take my life, but not my confidence”
Jimmy H. Woo
[This message was edited by MikSanSoo on 08-31-01 at 05:01 PM.]
I didn’t see the 4th one so didn’t include it. Lost interest in it a long time ago, especially after Ninja Cop won. No disagreement there. I also agree that Royce is quite a fighter…however, I still contend it has little to do with style and a lot to do with the fact that he is extremely well trained.
Now, I have heard a lot of folks claim the UFC was “hand-picked” by Rickson, that the fighters weren’t prepared…those are as lame an excuse as the styleone in my view. Royce has gotten some amazing wins, no doubt. But put Royce and his lifetime of training in the cage with guys who have been training for a few years, and it’s easy to see who will win. My argument is and always has been that it’s all in the training.
If you train to adapt and overcome, you probably will. The “style” just makes it look different.
Amitabha!
We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!
Just saw your post. Now, let me first say that I truly believe that there are some great fighters that we have never heard of, regardless of style. Call it what you want, if it’s effective, it’s all good. Of course, I also argue that anything is effective if you make it so. Anyhow, if Mr. Woo had come up with this style and said “This is my style” or “This was taught to me by so-and-so” I’d be fine with that, and San Soo may be a very effective art. However, the joke I refer to is the whole “secret scrolls” story. Please. It gets a little old hearing about “super secrets” and “the only combat art” and “the world’s most comprehensive yadadada”.
I truly don’t intend to defame anyone’s style because I think it’s silly, but I do take issue with the marketing machines. If the art works, show us. Don’t make up ridiculous stories about it to fool people. It’s not righteous.
Amitabha!
We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!
what scrolls? i have never heard of scrolls. there are books that the chin family is holding on to and won’t let anyone see them. but when jimmy had his el monte school many people have seen them. they were not a secret. san soo or tsoi li hoi fut hung kung fu is a family art. i mean chin family not the fighting families hung fa, fut ga, etc.. the books were extremly old from what i was told and writed in old chinese and were hard to read and translate into modern chinese. there is now secret scrolls or books. just no one has access to them since jimmy past.
i hate the marketing machines also. it has discredited san soo quite a bit. it’s really sad. but you see that quite a bit with a lot of martial arts not just san soo
“you can take my life, but not my confidence”
Jimmy H. Woo
Iron Vest: whass this???
Iron Palm: was allowed and still allowed but ehhhhhhhhh…no one has pulled it off.
Well, as far as I know, every fighter who has applied to UFC and stated they were a practicioner of Iron Palm has been rejected.
It would seem as if the higher ups don’t want an iron palm guys allowed in.
Iron Vest is just a protective chi exercise. If you are a BJJ’er who doesn’t “believe” in chi, you’ll just discredit it anyway.
As a final note:
You guys, chill. Well, first of all it’s cool that I already have 42 replies to this and I just got back from dinner I wish my serious posts got that kind of response But seriously tho, this post was entirely a joke. While it would be interesting to see such a tournyment, it’s not going to happen. Frankly, I really don’t care if all the BJJ’ers want to think that NHB means their art is the end all and be all of MA’s.
Anyway, thanks to all who replied.
I’ll be back later to see how many more posts I have.
“I’d like to see a no-name competitor in this kind of match. Even weight and height. Even skill level. The fight would be longer, but the physical cost would be heavier to both fighters.”
I’ve seen a bunch of these and been involved with a few myself. So far, the MMA or BJJ guy has always come out on top.J
The challenge matches I have seen or been involved in have usually been against “traditional” styles such as kung fu or karate. All the matches against other BJJ or MMA guys have been in in tourneys or sanctioned types of matches.?
So you are saying what, that you’ve seen a handfull of matches against picked opponents and NHB matches are mostly BJJ and MMa. Is that what you are saying? Because if it is you are contradicting what you said earlier. which is it?
MMA is NOT ALL BJJ! The days of pure bjj dominating are long gone, finished. Today, youd better know how to stand up and fight, or else.
Secondly, vale tudo in brazil has two rules only-no biting, no eye gouging. A gMMA guy can attack the eyes as easily as a kung fu guy, so adding that attack would not give an edge to the kung fu fella. If you cant hit a guy or keep him from getting position when the fight goes down (as many of them do), your eye gouge isnt going to help you much.
And yes, style does matter. Theres a reason most of the MMA guys use mainly boxing strikes (although not very well yet), western wrestling take downs, muay thai kicks and a hybrid submisssion style. Becuase these styles have efficient , biomechanically sound techniques that work well.
Why dont you see a lot of trapping in MMA? Becasue the distance never stays at trapping range long enough . Why dont you see THD style jumping and spinning kicks? The same reason. Why do wrestlers avoid strikes so well? because they come at from angles and at heights that are very hard to hit in the second you have before they close. Its more efficient to sprawl, gives you more room for error, and will put you in a better position even if you dont pull it off.
Dam, I get tired of these threads…
“You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting”
Spinning Backfist
So Ralek, how many 80 year old BJJ artists are still out there teaching and rolling around on the floor with their students? I can name three “soft-ass” kung fu Gm’s in their 80s who still actively train students. God knows how many in china are doing this as well.
The difference is that kung fu artists are more than just killing machines that burn out at 40 or 50 - think Gracie’s gonna be able to that???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Hey Mister Han man! I don’t like your island very much. In fact, I’d like to leave your island!”
African Tiger. Helio Gracie is 90 something. He still rolls and still taps out people.
All of the Gracie’s have been rolling till the day they died. The one’s that are still alive are still rolling. None of them have gotten burt out in BJJ history.
Rickson Gracie is in his 40’s and still rolls and still destroys people in their 20’s and 30’s on the mat. He beat one of the top NHB fighters a year or two ago, Funaki.
I don’t see any of the old BJJ black belts getting burnt out.
.
I wish my serious posts got that kind of response 
But seriously tho, this post was entirely a joke. While it would be interesting to see such a tournyment, it’s not going to happen. Frankly, I really don’t care if all the BJJ’ers want to think that NHB means their art is the end all and be all of MA’s.